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Accounts Analysis
Birmingham City FC released their accounts yesterday which showed a profit of £15.7million after player transfers. There was an operating loss of £3.988mil without transfers on a turnover of £39mil.
Having thought about it for a while, I have decided it would be better rather than to give an accountancy analysis which is complex and difficult for the layman to understand I will break down the figures to make it easier for people to see why Blues are in the difficulties that they are suffering.
It’s not all about Profit.
The initial reaction from many seems to be – wait a minute, if we’ve made a profit why are we in trouble? The issue is that the profit is fairly meaningless when taken into context. Firstly, on it’s own it’s good but when one considers that it immediately follows a £10million loss then one can see how it would cancel each other out. The profit made by Blues has gone to pay historic debts owed by the club and has put it into a healthier state, debt-wise – but not one that is going to be free-spending.
The operating loss shows the bleaker picture – that without selling players, Blues cannot keep themselves solvent. With a backer that can bankroll a club that isn’t an issue – but this isn’t a situation Blues find themselves in and thus with no overdraft either the club finds itself in a situation whereby it needs to sell players to keep itself in the black. This stark warning is given in the report whereby it clearly states that Blues will need to continue selling players to ensure it remains a going concern.
So why can’t Blues fund itself?
This comes down to two factors. Firstly – staffing costs. Last season Blues spent £25mil on wages, on a turnover of £39mil. That means for every £1 that Blues took in last season, they spent 64p on wages – wages for players predominately but also for the staff at the club. Whilst a wages to turnover ratio of 64% is actually reasonably healthy for a football club and within Football League guidelines it does mean it’s hard for the club to turn a profit.
Secondly, ticket sales have fallen due to being relegated. Whilst Blues ticket income went up slightly in the 2011/12 accounts in comparison to the 2010/11 accounts, (£9.276mil from £9.142mil), Blues played three more home games in the 2011/12 season. Furthermore, that revenue will have dipped further this year as Blues haven’t had a single home attendance this season that has been above the average attendance last year. Quite simply, Blues fans staying at home when they might have attended the game have and are affecting the profitability (and thus viability) of the club.
Cashflow is king
The chief problem, as stated many times before is cashflow. Whilst the company is run as a tightly run ship, Blues are forced to spend only what they receive due to a lack of overdraft facility and a lack of funding from BIH. Unfortunately, money doesn’t come into the football club spread out over the year – there are big lumps at the start of the year in season ticket money and parachute payments but then it’s all about making that last until the end of the season. Wages aren’t going to have massively changed from last season and with reduced incomings from matchday sales and commercial revenue one would think this season will be even tighter in ensuring the bills get paid.
Speaking of being paid…
The directors wage costs came to £687,611 – of which £687,611 was paid to one director – who isn’t named but I would assume is Peter Pannu as he is the only director who actually works at the club on any basis. This is a massive increase on the previous year where it was just over £80,000 – notably Mr Pannu was not a director at that time. There is also a note that the club paid £60,000 to a company called Asia Rays (of which Peter Pannu is the sole director) to lease a property for Peter Pannu for business purposes. In comparison, Karren Brady was paid £179,000 per annum just prior to her exit.
Xtep
The accounts also explain what happened in detail with respect to Xtep. Essentially, the deal was done by Vico Hui, Pauline Wong and another executive director called Li Yiu Tung. Whilst Mr Li did the original deal, the accounts state that a second unannounced counter-deal was done by Mr Hui whereby a payment was made back to Xtep to purportedly pay for promotion and advertisement of BIH and BCFC in China.
The fees to be paid by Xtep were HKD16mil, 17mil, 18mil, 19mil and 20mil over the course of the five year deal. The counter-deal would see Xtep paid HKD10mil in return. This on it’s own is a bit strange but it became worse when the relegation clause which would see Xtep pay half the original figure comes into play – especially when it turned out that the counter-deal had no such clause. The effect was that in the 2011/12 season Xtep were effectively paid around HKD1.5million (around £120k) to supply BCFC shirts rather than the other way around.
So where has the money gone?
What these accounts show is that football outside the Premier League is almost impossible to be profitable. These accounts show that in it’s current situation Blues would have to turn over around £40million to make a profit – and many Championship clubs struggle to make half that. Championship clubs have three options – a rich benefactor like Forest or Wolves who is prepared to dump money in and not worry about it; go into a hideous amount of debt to try and make it like Portsmouth or Leeds, or operate on a shoestring and hope for a managerial miracle. The pure, brutal fact of the matter is that the majority of the money goes into the pockets of the players – as I have continually stated on here.
Tags: Accounts, Peter Pannu
218 Responses to “Accounts Analysis”
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” Quite simply, Blues fans staying at home when they might have attended the game have and are affecting the profitability (and thus viability) of the club ”
Stick that up yer clacker, Claud Butler!
So its the fans fault?
I paid over a grand in this year, that’s 100% up on the previous year as I bought two extra tickets. However they will be the grand down next year not me. Its over.
Thank God for that.
Take yer moaning/booing/whinging down to filth park pal.
Enjoy Wembley and Europe did ya?
So, when the chips are down, you bottle out?
Hear hear
Some complete cranks on here try to tell me the same. Non attendance does not affect cashflow according to them.
I would go as far as to say if I was an investor and only 14K from Britains 2nd city could be bothered turning up I wouldn’t be putting my dough in. 11,000 to brugge, 50,000 to Wembley etc… makes me sick.
Cue excuses
The plain and simple fact is that there is more to people’s lives than the Blues.
I would love to be there every week. In an ideal world, I’d love to watch the Blues regularly and drop in to my local non league club when they’re away, but I have a life outside of being a football lover. According to Google Maps, I live a 359 mile, 6 hour journey from Birmingham, rising to 3250km and a 4+ hour flight over the next year. That’s without even considering the financial aspect.
Equally, when I was growing up my family always made it to the Blues when they could – but that’s not easy if you have to work on a Saturday, or don’t earn the kind of money that makes it easy to justify spending enough to get a family of 4 into the ground on your Saturday off. My uncle still has a season ticket for the Blues – because he worked 5 days a week on a nice salary from the city council.
When you factor in that away attendances will generally be bigger in the Premier League, there are fewer home games so the people turning up to their one or two games per season will be less spread out, and that whatever way you frame it, home games against the likes of Watford, Peterborough, etc. are less likely to encourage people to make the effort to spend money and get time off work than the ‘once in a lifetime’ spectacles like Wembley or Europe. Simply put, comparing Premier League and one-off cup turnouts with Championship games is not comparing like with like. If you want to have a beef with someone about the spare capacity at St Andrew’s, then look at the people who were quite capable of making the effort last season for 4th placed Blues but suddenly incapable of showing support for 20th placed Blues.
Birmingham City as a football club has a lot of armchair fans because generally Brummies are not particularly rich.
Explain the filths attandances then or even the Albions.
This is Britains 2nd city. We took 50K to Wembley, 11,000 to Brugge.
Obviously criticism for not attending is not aimed at low income/unemployed/ex pats just those who can go – but don’t.
To be honest I realised it wasn’t a criticism of exiles and ex-pats but chucking them in as an extreme first example helped to build up to my overall point :)
Villa – as much as it pains me to say, they’re currently – as they often have been – a bigger club than us. Vile Park is more of a draw to away fans, draws in more glory hunters from elsewhere who hopped on the bandwagon 30 years ago without realising they’d never be let off again, and is hosting Premier League football, albeit in name rather than standard.
Olbiyun – riding high in the Prem and playing good football. All of their supporters have come out of the woodwork, bless ’em.
From £80.000 to £687,000+(prob not inc perks/flights/taxis/hotels) ahh,no wonder Pannu does not want to negotiate a genuine takeover,as his pay roll is fairly tasty,his name is bandied around,what happens when/if he is gone,maybe he makes his way to the Hong Kong job centre?
Why do that when you can keep clinging on to the cash cow.
First class flights, 5 star hotels. Not a bad job really eh?
First class on flights, 5 star hotels and zero accountability.
Not a bad job really eh?
I really think that £600k would only be justifiable in a highly complex business model. A football club affairs is relatively simple. Karen Brady’s salary was more of reflection given she was given share options too plus performance bonus.
I agree with the post that it could be construed as a method to legally expatraitensome funds to HK so that PP could ‘loan’ them to CY
perhaps if they told the 17 thousand a game how it is the other 13 thousand would turn up and support the cause but how can you support anything that doesnt tell you anything
Eh?
‘The directors wage costs came to £687,611 ‘of which £687,611 was paid to one director – who isn’t named but I would assume is Peter Pannu ‘
How the hell is Peter Pannu getting that much out of the club for what he is doing, a 600grand increase on last year when were making cost cutting measures from playing staff to the tea lady yet he thinks himself deserves a pay rise. Is this bloke for real??? 1. Hes hardly at the club to run it proply, 2 look at the state of the club he and his cronies have got us in, 3,Hes had a year or more to sell the club and has failed misrably. I know quiite a few fans now who genuinly cant afford to go down with the cost of the whole day now when you got young families or morgages to pay, yet hes tellin every1 of us to spend our hard earned money (which incidently is well earnt unlike pannu’s) cus the club needs us and in put of cashflow to keep it going fair enuf, but not to pay you to the tune of 680000 for litrally and continuin to destroy our club, its like were paying you for the privlidge now! Its an absloute joke
Cheers for the breakdown al
sorry but i have to agree
why does pannu think hes worth this amount plus the club pays his company for leesing him an office
i find this unbelievable and whilst it may well be legal it has to be considered immoral when the club is in the state its in
afterall pannu is barely here the hard working st andrews staff run the club
Put another way where is the motivation to sell?
He’ll never get another job like this will he?
Its not all bad for him if he does manage to sell , with reports he will trouser 2 million for his efforts…
Think its a massive amount to pay out even if he was the best in the world at what he does, which he isn’t.
Now don’t take this as a defence but could this figure include payoffs/golden handshakes which likely happened to the likes Hui? Or are these accounted for elsewhere?
These figures do make you think that people are just using us as a cash cow… that xtep deal is horrendous and extremely dodgy sounding.
The underlying point though its the the low gates driving us into a hole and not asset stripping is what I’ve always thought though. putting it in to context even if Pannu got paid nothing and claimed no expenses (which isn’t likely to happen) it wouldn’t even make dent on the cashflow issue.
Supporters need to support…
Nope. The accounts make it plain it’s gone to one bloke – and that bloke is Pannu.
To increase his salary by nearly 9 times is insanity. I don’t care how many roles he has in the business and his role in the sale. As has been said prevously he’ll be handsomely rewarded for this and if you compare his salary now to that of Karen’s it’s off the scale. My jaw just hit the floor after reading that.
I’m not one of them but I can see why (and more so even now) fans won;t want to put thier hands in their arse pockets and put money into the club as it simply funds Pete’s Champagne lifestyle.
Birmingham City is the working man of Birminghams club and this will anger a lot of people.
then he needs to justify this why is he worth that money when all they have done is drop us in the s@#t
Yes we need to support but we also need to have something to support.
There is no vision, no forward thinking from the club. If we had during the summer publicly said that we were looking to rely on younger, hungrier players and that finances were very tight then at least that was honest, Instead in comes Lee Clark and starts sginng jouneymen.
I do go to matches though, I pick and choose because my children are young and I wish to enjoy being a parent. There isnt the vision at the club that would make me want to go every other week.
So you admit you’re not a Blues fan then yeah?
My father took me to St Andrews in 1969 for the first time and we beat Sheffield Wed in the FA Cup in front of 51,000 fans. The next round we played Man Utd at home but he could not get tickets. I had the bug and am definitely a Blues fan ever since. You do not have to go to every game to be a fan and there are other things in life such as family. However I still go to matches on a regular basis, just picking and choosing doesnt mean you arent a fan.
AF I meant to post that elsewhere
My apologies mate
Peter Pannu has a lot of questions to answer. Thanks to the staff for keeping the ship (barely) afloat. I wish for what other fans have stated – a Brit owner (or at least European). Communication, Chinese-style is no way to run a football club. Thanks OP for your effort in researching and explaining information that is so hard to find or understand. Time the Birmingham Mail helped out. KRO
PS Getting 17,000 is a good crowd when we are fighting relegation from the Championship. I travelled 12000 miles to see us thrashed by Barcelona (oops I mean Barnsley).
Come off it Eric
You took in a game while you were here, you didn’t come here specifically for Blues v Barnsley.
Stop giving it the big un.
Thanks Mr Main-Man.
Stay blogging please.
Why you haven’t been head-hunted by some savvy media company is beyond me.
Their loss is our gain.
……………….
It looks grim for us “dwindling” Peter Pannu supporters, doesn’t it?
:-)
But, always a BUT,….Pannu’s assumed recompense may be to do with the three or four hats he is wearing ….through circumstance and not design.
He took over from Dunford (who really fell asleep on the job over Seymour Peirce and nearly cost us).
He took over from Hui (who did cost us).
He is chief negotiator and lineman for future investment/takeover.
He is assisting Yeung’s defence team.
Okay – enough :-)
Obviously Peter is the true ‘Renaissance Man’ .
The crucial point is, if the infamous No 9 Omnibus ran over Pannu tomorrow, we would be in Administration tyhe week after.
Whatever people may slag him or accuse his hopeless PR of incompetance and such, this guy, with ALL his responsibilities and various hats….has kept Blues …us, really….a going concern.
And as he says – “I care not” – about the abuse and slagging that may come his way, he is giving us tough love and hard medicine to keep us hoing.
Yes, we are a selling club – we always have been – so please, no more crocodile tears when one or two players get sold on.
As AJ said, and a fair few of us realise…CASHFLOW IS KING.
From Sarah to Julia to Nikola to the Groundsmen at Wast…and to Doris the tea lady…your jobs depend on the ability of Peter Pannu to finagle money to keep us, Blues, afloat.
……….
I don’t begrudge him one penny, because of his responsibilty and work….for blues….which, basically …. is to SAVE us.
………
as a PS….David Gold is seriously ill with pnuemonia at this momemnt.
And as a snide comment, his helicopter travels and servicing and Sullivan’s bodyguards and limo’s and Karren’s porsche rentals…cost more than Pannu’s probabke wages.And they were ON TOP of their wages.
…
Get well soon David.
Pannu could of course be being used as a conduit to cash for CY.Carsen has legal bills to pay and his finances are blocked.This could be a stream of clean and legitimate money which can be traced back to a transparent source.Paranoia perhaps-but I used to live in Hong Kong! Wanchai rather perversely .
Director Salary from 80K to 687K thats a massive jump which I assume the board sat and voted in?
As it stands outgoings exceed incomings is the bottom line and until that changes we are doomed.
Austerity is the only route at the moment and as much as I hate to say this reducing the wage bill is the easiest way to do that even though it will have a negative effect. Lean and mean will not encourage support back onto the terraces where it seems our only feed of regular income is coming from..
We need a sugar daddy from somewhere somehow ASAP.
In the normal world to get a rise from £80K to £687K there has to be a massive reason. it would normally be a reward for success.
So what gives here?
Pannu didn’t get a rise like that.
Last year, Pannu wasn’t a director. There were other directors, and they got 80k between them.
This year, Pannu is a director, the only one who is paid.
HOWEVER, I would like to know who agreed that salary – and how much he gets from BIH…
Plus where did the money come from to pay him?
Al
Just a thought what was the bottom line figure after everything was taken out ??
Thanks for the brilliant analysis!
I imagine most comments here will obsess about Pannu’s remuneration but it is still only 12 weeks of Zigic’s wages and which one of them is more productive?
As you say, the biggest drain on the club is Player’s Wages. So is this yet more evidence that Championship football should be about a squad that are products of the Accademy ie lower wages and the potential to sell good players to richer clubs for big transfer fees. Look what Southampton achieved.
Spot there. Everyone knows Zigic is on £50k a week. 52 times £50k is £2.6 million — or about four and a half times what Pannu is getting. And what is Zig doing? Sat on his arse with a red card.
Red cards happen in football
Nowt to do with a players wage
True professionals should behave with a little more dignity and decorum (even when getting mangled by defenders and those defenders are getting away with it) I love Zig but he let the club down at Bolton.
And everyone thort the mps were bad!!!! In hard times everyone bar pannu feeling the hit. Cant see him doin more than karren brady. So much for cost cutting
Irresponsible people own and operate the business formally known as Birmingham City Football Club.
£600,000 Pannu pays himself. And then he pays his own company to rent a place for him in Hong Kong.
Pannu is having the time of his life. A real money-spinner for him.
He doesn’t care about you. Soz.
And you have the nerve to tell us the only way out of it is giving him more money? I’d rather wait til we were in League 2 or lower if it means we have an honest club.
Who said give Pannu more money?
Its not up to anybody but Pannu.
Its not up to the fans.
Its out of our hands and control, like the rest of “our” club.
Almajir, can you clarify something regarding the Xtep deal?
2011/2012 we effectively gave them more money than they gave us. 2012/2013, am i correct in thinking we aren’t giving them any money this year, or future years?
As we have Diadora on our shirts now I doubt very much that they’re getting any more cash off us.
ah yes, good point! thanks
:)
Don’t know whether it’s possible to find out, but whats the odds on the £800k that Xtep got from Blues for ‘advertising’ being paid to a company owned by someone connected in some way to one of the HK connection??
NB. VOR’s on fire today and taking no prisoners
We all know Sky and a huge player salary has ruined the game. A lot of people refuse to go to games just because of that. I think we should support Lee Clark and the younger players coming into the team now, it seems to be the future for this football club.
Agreed about sky/salaries. Success can only be bought now. Who wants that kind of success? By definition it is meaningless.
I hope this happens to enough clubs for the fans to revolt and demand our game back. Remember when people used to try their best because they loved it? Remember when players decided if they left a club or not?
People are making money out of the destruction and exploitation of it all. No wonder the players are a pretty unlikeable bunch of mercenaries these days.
No mention is made of the revenue generated in the relevant financial year as a result of our European adventure and FA Cup run which helped cashflow in the 1st year following relegation. I suspect turnover is down greatly from the £39M in the current year. In saying that our wage bill will have fallen further again also. The good news compared to Portsmouth is that the overall debts of BCFC is manageable and as long as we can sell the odd player (sad though it is) for a decent figure we can avoid administration. I was impressed with our performance at Leeds and the key thing is now that we maintain a sufficiently strong enough squad to survive in this league and hope that we are either sold in the summer or CY pulls a rabbit out of the hat in the court case and starts reinvesting again.
In this accounting period the following left the club (& their wages)
Larrson , Gardner, Johnson, Jerome, Dann, Ridgewell, Beausejour, Mutch, Foster, Ferguson, Phillips , Bowyer , McFadden, Michel, Jiranek, Bent, Taylor, Valles, Parnaby, Derbyshire , Hleb, Bentley, & Martins..
Total Tranfer Fees & Wages – £60m ?
Puts the £15 million profit into perspective
it won’t be £60 mill as not all the transfer sums will be up front, hopefully we will be getting some payments this season from some of those transfers
Hi Almajir
This extract “It was revealed Blues’ president Carson Yeung loaned the club £14.4 million of his own money and parent company Birmingham International Holdings Ltd £7 million to help with running costs last season.” in the Birmingham Mail this morning intrigued me. In particular the £7m that BIHL loaned the club. I was of the impression that BIHL’s sole source of revenue was the club so wondering how it could make such a loan if the club is not making a profit. Or has BIHL secured a loan elsewhere to loan the club?
I understand that CY’s assets are frozen, but are also BIHL’s assets frozen. If they are not, can they secure other funding to loan the club to ease the cash flow as a temporary measure?
I don’t think BIHL’s assets are frozen but bearing in mind the rate of interest off Yang Yuezhou for instance was 14% I don’t think anyone is going to lend them any money except at wonga.com rates
Thanks for the clarification Al
Pannu earns an absolute fortune out of this club; his expenses are beyond belief.
As for the stay away fans, yes you are harming the club. The same fans that went to the Premiership Games, Europa League and CC.
Fans who are putting their kids, mortgage, bills etc first – no complaints. Football aint that important in the grand scheme of things. But for the stay at home fans there is no excuse.
Playing in front of 24,000 as opposed to 17k makes a difference.
Make no mistake, Carson has damaged our club ( please don’t mention he won us the Carling Cup), to the point where we are potentially weeks away from administration. But some extra support from the missing 10,000 may well see us through
Keep Right On.
As I said earlier I pick and choose games due to having young children. However there has to be something to support, a direction and vision. The club is currently just struggling from one negative headline to another. If they just said we have no money but we are going to rebuild a side from young hungry players recruted from the academy and lower leagues then fine I go with it. That is long term strategic planning. However what we get is the current ongoing stumbling from one disaster to another.
Nail hit firmly on the head
the average last year was 19000 not 24000 the difference between this season 16000 and last is £3 million doesn’t even cover the trading deficit.
So the crowd doesn’t make that much difference, unless we couid get 25000 plus, which would mean £6 milll more than last year turning the trading deficit into a small trading profit.
Hi Almajir…thanks for the update…what concerns me most is when we lose the parachute payment of £16M the turnover will go from £39M to £23M then wages will have to be massively reduced. I know we are still due £8M over the next two seasons provided we stay in the Championship. It really is backs to the wall stuff!
The good news: apparently we don’t lose the parachute payment if we go down.
£685,000 to Pannu doesn’t compare to the £3.5 million per annum to Zigic which is nearly 15 percent of our total wage bill. What do we get for that? A player who has been suspended twice and injured half the season or on the bench. It is not value for money and potential suitors obviously recognise this. How do we get him off the books and who agreed the contract in the first place?
How do we get him off the books?
Well, we could sell him – but no one wants him, pay him off – which we can’t afford, or convince him to tear up his deal – and why should he do that?
Who agreed the deal? Michael Dunford.
Hi Almajir, you’re normally spot on with your facts but I think you migth have got this one wrong regarding Michael Dunford.
I rembember seeing him in a one to one fans forum January 2010, within a month Dunford was gone (…nothing to do with me I hope!) Zigic didn’t sign till June straght after the World Cup, so it couldn’t have been Dunford who signed him up.
I’m glad they did, set up the winner in the final. Scored the winner against the filth in the quarters.
I would have paid double for the enjoyment Zigic has brought us, Cult hero.
Just for his winner against the Villa
Spot on Dan
Those goals alone were worth his deal to me.
Comparing him with Pannu, whos job at the club I still don’t understand, is like comparing chalk and cheese
I wonder how much the chief executve of Birmingam City council gets paid, how many employees and what is the budget?. I think in comparison we will find that the amount being paid to PP is massivley over inflated? I do begrudge it yes, especially if Karen Brady was paid £179k per annum. If that is the case then something similar is more akin. Pot and kettle springs to mind with all this stuff about cashflow and needing to sell players. The Director costs set the wrong example.
I suspect that some of PP’s salary from BCFC is related to his work to assist CY personally in regard to his personal situation as we know he has spent a lot of time in Hong Kong and I am sure he has assisted on issues related to the court case as well as BIH.
I suspect PP also gets paid by BIH for that. I’d like to know if he does or not.
Will you be contacting him al to ask how he justifies given himself that much of a ‘rise’ or even avin the cahonies to take that much when every body else from top to bottom at the club are making wage cuts or redundancy?, and lets be honest hes crap at his job and always have been, not a football man n never will be. Id be angry if he was getting 5o grand a year for what he does let alone that figure. Goes to show how far from realityh this bloke really is, and another great way to get the fans of your back Peter Pannu u numpty!
A couple of observations :-
1. The kids have been brilliant for us this season wherever we finish and like Tom Ross tells us, they are from the youth structure and are being paid less than “most of us” at present. However they are still part of the greater scheme of things and will ultimately join the ranks of the merecenaries, who’s agents fees and huge salaries are bleeding our game to death. That’s the way of the world until someone ends the madness. It’s not the kids fault and I still love them for what they are doing today.
2. Lets take a leaf out of the Rangers Fan’s book. Their world has fallen apart mainly due to executive incompetence and the cowards and the vultures have turned in on them. So did they stop buying their season tickets? Did they stop supporting their team? To be honest, they are playing and supporting their way out of the mire (in their thousands) and by all accounts having a great time and building some great memories. KRO.
Rangers season tickets sales were up compare to there last season in the SPL and they have better avg. attendance listening to a report on the radio this morning. I suppose you have to be a little more of a committed fan to put up with Scottish footy for all that time. :-)
So if PP took just a £87,000 salary the remaining would equate to an extra 1,500 on each home gate,
hmmmm
A director earning over £600k per annum with no strategic plan or vision, apart from selling the club !!!!!! It can only happen in football cant it??
Or banking!
Blues highest attendance this season 18437, Blues avg attendance this season 16576 (The Football-League.co.uk
Blues average attendance last season was in excess of 19k – a figure we’ve not topped yet.
Great analysis.
Like a lot of people here, I immediately compared the £4m loss to Zigic’s wages. Actually, if you managed to get both Zigic and King off the wage bill, the club would be breaking even. Until it gets relegated again, of course.
As for Pannu’s rather large salary, I’d hate to think that a proportion of this salary is finding its way on a regular basis to another party (or is being used to pay invoices on behalf of another party). That other party could conceivably be someone who had a say in the level of Pannu’s salary. But that would be illegal, so I can’t believe that it’s the case – as far as I know, everyone associated with the club has a spotless financial history.
It seems to me that if the only asset of BIH is its shareholding in BCFC, ie it is a holding company, then it probably has little or no cash to pay PP for his services. So it seems he is being paid via BCFC for all his services to both companies.
Paul Carter has this the wrong way around, haranguing anyone that isn’t attending games week in week out and telling them they are not Birmingham City fans.
The club is responsible for providing a bit of entertainment in return for our cash. We do not pay our cash to keep the club running regardless of what we see on the pitch. Although two are linked, he is looking at it the wrong way.
Paul would say I am not a fan because I haven’t been to many games this season, whilst I had a season ticket last year, went to the Carling Cup Final and European games.
It was clear to see in the summer that we were in for a struggle (which should also have been the case last year, but for Chris Hughton) which isn’t the sole reason for my lack of attendance, it was also clear that the quality of football was to be vastly inferior to that we had last year. Football fans today demand quality football, not merely results.
An example being McLeish when we went unbeaten for all those games. It was dour football and despite the results people still complained.
The poor football and general negative feeling surrounding the club is what draining any motivation I have to shell out a few notes to go to a match and I would suspect the same could be said of many others not attending, that and the fear of being sat behind Paul Carter preaching to anyone that will listen how he is a model fan and he has brought the full home, away and third kit for him, his wife and the rest of his extended family.
Finally, perhaps this is too simplistic but here goes.
Nicola Zigic on £50k per week total £2.6m a year
This is a big chunk of our operating loss. Perhaps Blues being self sustaining is not as far away as it seems. Although someone has take the big man of our hands.
You’re spot on re Zigic – as I’ve pointed out a zillion times on here I don’t care if he performs like Messi, ronaldo and rooney all rolled into one, we can’t and never could afford his wages.
Where you’re wrong is disagreeing with PCVOR !!! AS per my post below this is DEAD simple. Full ground = no financial issues. Sub 20,000 @ Stans = selling our best players. Pannu is not the problem, the stay away fans and CY’s assett freeze are what’s doing the damage – end of. If people don’t like the football and chose to stay away for that reason, that’s fine, entirely their prerogative but please drop the pretense of being loyal supporters.
Marky Mark – I did have a good chuckle about your comment. Paul often reminds me of a guy we sat in front of in the Tilton Corner about 15 years ago who me and my Dad christened “The Sage”
Although he does bang that particular drum a little too hard on occasion he does make valid points about fan desertion and also that the constant desertion is massivley affecting the club. Clearly it’ s an entertainment business as you say so if people feel detached / over charged / under-entertained (is that a word?) then they won’t go.
My point in all of this is that it’s vital that the club come up with the best way to get these missing thousands back to Stans. I’d be curious to know who is in charge of Business Development at the club as although the product is clearly inferior this season it might be possible that the club got the pricing structure wrong (based on their season forecasts) and I personally would vote for a Bradford or Hartlepool model of season ticket pricing for mext season. Clearly we need a change of tack and structure to get bums on seats.
Why dont we all do what you do then pal?
Go when the goings good but when its bad stop going. Jump ship when the chips are down. Leave em to sink.
If we all did that we’d have zero fans in the ground, no income from attendances and the club would fold.
I hope you and people like you carry on staying away. You do’t know the meaning of the word support.
Why’s everyone getting so upset ? These accounts are MASSIVELY POSITIVE considering where a lot of other relegated clubs have found themselves.
We’ve taken a massive chunk out of our debt. Zigic and the kit deal fiascoes (neither of which were Pannu’s doing) notwithstanding we’re operating to breakeven on gates of sub 20K and with no-one propping us up. Show me another Champ club that can do that? OK so we’ll have to sell Butland and do a small amount of further trimming of wages, to fund Zigic and the drop in crowds but the club is being VERY well run financially and Pannu deserves credit for this (albeit £650K of credit does seem VERY excessive).
What pisses me right off is all the divvy’s slagging off CY and PP and using Chinese ownership as an excuse not to go down to Stans. These eejits weren’t slagging the Chinese off when they were splashing the cash in the Prem finishing 9th and winning a Cup. It’s not their fault that McJockstrap wasted a lot of it and then couldn’t organise/motivate the team to scrape a couple more points post Wembley.
Paul Carter VOR and Pannu are right – if we fill the ground and get behind the team the financial issues go away. SIMPLES.
Another VOR!
And who employed the clearly terrible McLeish?
Sullivan.
What’s your point ?
Basic economics. I for one support Al and anyone else on here who wants to start a Fill Stans Day capmpaign to fill the ground at least once and get people back at the club and back repeatedly.
PS wasn’t watching bradford last night hilarious
Hilarious, and fully deserved! I thought Bradford could have had a penalty at every set piece!
Everyone seems to infer that Pannu had a massive pay rise. The accounts say no such thing – his salary in the previous period was not reported in the account disclosures as he was not a Director then!
Also the lack of an overdraft has not hindered Blues – spending the bank’s money would not make things better & would be a totally inappropriate use of an overdraft.
Am I right in thinking PP’s wage increase is over 700%?
No, because he wasn’t a director last year.
I’ve said this twice now – the 80k last year DID NOT INCLUDE PANNU COS HE WASN’T A DIRECTOR.
Sorry for the caps.
I think the likelihood is that he’s being paid relatively ‘normal’ salaries for a number of roles at the club, expressed as that single figure, right?
Are you certain the huge pay to a director was not to CY,s son,which would be the only reason that makes sense in
him been on the board in the first place?
Or have i got hte timelines wrong?
The financial findings over the last few days plus the utterances from Pannu on the Tom Ross show plus the drawn out nature of the selling process leaves us in no doubt that the current owners assisted by Pannu will take every penny they can out of the club before they move onto pastures new.
Oh for a return to the Cifford Coombes days when the owner had a binding affiliation to the club and fans – distant memories!
“The financial findings over the last few days plus the utterances from Pannu on the Tom Ross show plus the drawn out nature of the selling process leaves us in no doubt that the current owners assisted by Pannu will take every penny they can out of the club..”
You’re totally wrong mate. How you reach that conclusion is utterly beyond me. Unbelievable.
Clifford Coombs had the best interests of the club at heart I agree,,,,,,,But Keith was just as bad as Wheldon, The Kumars, the Brady Bunch and Yeung,,,,,,out to get as much as he could from the club,,,,,,and the closest to actual gangsterism than Sullivan,Gold or Panninis”Zulu” connections ever were,,,,,,,,one of his main forms of income was “Loan Sharking”
Where in the accounts does it say money has gone to Hong kong. What astounds me is that with no evidence people like you jump to the wrong conclusions. Your post leaves me in no doubt that we have fans who should only be given crayons to draw with for fear of hurting themselves!
X-Tep £120k..
Yeh, 120k is so close to the millions some people are claiming!
With all due respect to all,,,,,,,WHY is it that Pannu is the director on mega bucks,,,,,,I am not a fan of his by any means or Yeung,,,,,,,but has any thought been given as to WHO set up the Xtep deal that meant Blues PAID a kit sponsor,who was a director when the accounts couldnt be published,,,,,IT WASNT PANNU,,,,,,,put the blame onto the right person !!!
Prewarblue – I did actually say in the article, as per the accounts that the xtep deal was set up by Vico Hui, Pauline Wong and Li Yiu Tung
i had read this,,,,,,but the gob was working faster than the brain [ as usual ! ]
Quite right, well said.
Well Iv not been since they sold Trevor, still consider myself as much a fan as anyone else.
Just for clarity would that be – Hockey , Matthewson, Luntala, Smith or Francis ?
Tresor Luntala the next Patrick Viera if i recall :D
Will you be contacting him al to ask how he justifies given himself that much of a ‘rise’ or even avin the cahonies to take that much when every body else from top to bottom at the club are making wage cuts or redundancy?, and lets be honest hes crap at his job and always have been, not a football man n never will be. Id be angry if he was getting 5o grand a year for what he does let alone that figure. Goes to show how far from realityh this bloke really is, and another great way to get the fans of your back Peter Pannu u numpty!
His earnings are far to high
He’s not crap at his job, he’s quite good at it.
Well if hes that good at his job do u want to keep him on when we get new owners in then i take it, oh maybe give him another raise then ah cus he finaly managed to sell the club, n as u say hes good at his job. Hes a barrister and as i said before either you get wat i mean or u dont but he is not a football man and never will be simple as!
I’d happily keep Pannu on TBH. FOr a number of reasons.
1. He runs a tight ship. He makes sure we don’t spend more than we earn. Good business sense, but lacking in the vaste majority of clubs.
2. He drives a hard bargain and takes no messing in negotiations. The money we got for most of the player sales and manager compensation fees was far more that it should have been.
I don’t really get your point about “a football man”. I don’t know if there is such a thing.
I do think he’s been massively overpaid. And I do understand why people don’t like him – his PR is terrible. But look beyond the spin (or lack of it). There are plenty of other idiots we could have ended up with who’d have done a lot worse – ask Sheff WEds, Leeds, Pompey, Derby etc etc etc
I dont agree and hope we se the back of him when we get new owners
1. He runs a tight ship. He makes sure we don’t spend more than we earn. Good business sense, but lacking in the vaste majority of clubs.
As did Karren Brady and didnht get blues into any of the mess like this, did he run that tight ship in the prem? and was it not his good business sense that didnt have any contgency plans for relegation in any way shape or form? And that same business sense that revealed his hand for every one to see in his interview with tom ross as regards to player sales so now we will get a pittance for what the players are worth now on deadline day cus clubs will no its to late for blues to refuse by then.
2. He drives a hard bargain and takes no messing in negotiations. The money we got for most of the player sales and manager compensation fees was far more that it should have been.
Hence the reason i said he was a qualified lawyer/barrister which makes him a good at these things. What i ment by he is not a football man, is that after getting rid of dunford we was left with an ex policeman/lawyer/barrister to pretty much single handly run the club and deal with people around the football world in which he had no experience with, ie.chairmen, agents etc. So i do agree with you that he was good at getting good compensation fees and is a hard negoiator, but in other aspects of running a footbal club and business wise think he is naive and lacks in in alot or areas.
And as for were we have ended up you cant really call on that one yet as it still going on with these oweners for the foreseeable future with more player sales , threat if relegation or adminisration that are all stil a real possibilty, so ye not as bad as the clubs you mentioned yet but nothink would surprise me wth these crazy lot and who knows what is round the corner with them .
I stated clearly on local Radio in the build-up and the day of the take over – I was extremely worried then and everyone believed the BS… and just wanted to get Gold etc out – at least the accounts were OK and our club was in a decent position..
Interesting comments – Trading in asia is extremely difficult – and even more difficult to understand the governance in Asia (having worked there for almost 20 years)
I have no issues with PP salary – if someone delivers – and at least he is open within limitations
I have issue with big zig – sent off twice and general play – but its not his fault the salary package…
I have a serious issue around value for money – I am not sure that I am better off having a season ticket – or buy on match day… lets face it an upfront interestment from my taxable income is a hit in these current times… I want offers that are aimed at one person – not ticket for a mate…
the best thing at the moment is the food on the tilton corner…
I would love to know just how far down the road Blues have gone in the final line of the article published by the “Mail” about legal action regarding those who made that Xtep deal [ if they can be found to serve the papers on]
And can anything thats said by Pannu or “A spokesperson” at Blues be believed,,,,,,while not calling your truthfullness into doubt or repeating to us what you are told,,,,,,,can you honestly believe that the one director paid 1/2 million pounds has left that money in an “English “bank account ?,,,,,that money went straight into a bank in China thus giving lie to the statement that no money has left Blues to go to China, along with the Xtep slush fund
Okay.
I think to say money being paid to Pannu is “money being siphoned off to China” is pushing it.
As for the Xtep money… none of it came into the club, so it could hardly have left the club could it?
Why is everybody so certain its Pannu that has been paid the 1/2 million pounds,,,,,,,,who got Hui kicked out ?,,,,,,as you have pointed out in your article,,,,,it wasnt Pannu who was lining his own bank accounts,,,,,,,Pannu wasnt in charge when the Xtep deal was set up,,,,, Hui was,,,,,,,I am not a fan of Pannu , I sant wait to see the back of him but to blame him for the money fiasco is not fair,,,,,blame the people who are,,,,,,he may be getting £60k for himself,,,,,,Saint Brady got £120k plus her cut of the sale price and a car she was forced to return
Believe me, it wasn’t anyone else.
Pannu does not have a stake in the future of the club,,,,,his boss does !!!!,,,,,Yeung put his hand into his pocket when he was able too,,,,,,,,Any sign of Hui ,Wong or any of the other members of the board doing so,,,, not a chance,,,,,,quite happy for Blues to be a milk cow for them,,,,,but when the cow runs dry ,,,,,send it to the slaughter house and get what they can for the carcass
As has been said Ajl if you have not been exposed to the environment where you would understand business processes and practices, management accounts, P&L, Balance Sheet and cash flow respectfully it would be very difficult for you to make a skilled comment on the accounts. I might have a view why my car was running poorly or why my plants were growing but I would need somebody who knew what they were talking about to properly diagnose it.
As has been said by Ajl if you have not been exposed to the environment where you would understand business processes and practices, management accounts, P&L, Balance Sheet and cash flow respectfully it would be very difficult for you to make a skilled comment on the accounts. I might have a view why my car was running poorly or why my plants were growing but I would need somebody who knew what they were talking about to properly diagnose it.
Dan as the only member I know will the Supporters Trust be protesting about this massive wage?
I can still see him waving his wallet at us in Madeira
I can see a massive backlash against him from the 8000 at the Leeds game.
Paul
I’m a supporters trust member. I agree that his wage is too high, bordering on the ridiculous. I will email them straight away about it and ask them to make representations. Let’s not hold our breathes, eh?
Fair play to you Al
Thought Dan was the only member on here.
This could be the platform the trust need to get the fans behind them.
Paul, done, thus:
As a paid up trust member I wish to register my view that the payment of £687,611 to a single director in FY 11/12 (presumably Mr Pannu) is inappropriately high and seems to be vastly out of kilter with other Championship MDs/CEO’s.
I would like to see the Trust making formal representations to Mr Pannu in this regard, particularly in light of the club’s current financial challenges.
Well done Al
If I get a response I’ll update on here
fair play to the trust I’ve had a response already, best paraphrased as “we’re still going through the accounts document in detail and will issue our view in due course”
Fair play that they aren’t rushing – I’m pretty sure there are some proper accountants involved in this review, which is exactly what’s needed. I’m sure they’ll look VERY closely at the Directors renumeration section……
Cheers Al
So if pp is the only director then he’s given himself this pay then plus paid his own company out of bcfc money to fund himself an office.This is a disgrace.
Also it’s great people keep point towards the fans as to not attending but you only have to look at most clubs to see their attendancies are falling,unfortunately current economics people are spending more to just live and football is an expensive day out now.Also crowds drop when teams struggle,this isn’t just blues it’s most teams so continually slagging off other fans for not going isn’t beneficial to anyone and just promotes more negativity .
If people genuinely can’t afford it, they are beyond criticism
However the facts remain (and I make no apology for repetition here)
1. Full ground = no financial crises
2. Non attendance for any reason other than financial / travel / health = disloyalty.
I’ll ask again then Tone
What happens to the club if everybody stops going?
The clear fact is those who stop going expect the ones that do to keep the club going, fund new players while they just sit back and wait for Wembley or Europe,
A brilliant point PC. Well said. This rubbish about recession affecting people is trying my patience. No poorer area than the North East yet they stay loyal to under achieving football clubs. We won a cup and then they deserted in droves.
No excuses, get down there, get behind the boys.
the wage wouldnt be an issue if we could see value for money. but we are not seeing it. why is that the club is trying to be sold to hong kong/china so bad is what i want to know?? i dont trust any deal that pannu and co will make for the club anymore. its not butland we need to get offloaded its pannu and zigic’s contract.
keeping the club going and getting over the odds for a load of average players like gardner, Johnson, Mutch feels lgood value if he was on about a quarter of what he actually got.
I think that due to our current financial state that this might be the window when Zigic finally leaves via a loan agreement with Blues being desperate enough to subsidise some of his wages. In previous windows not even relatively well funded Spanish clubs ( a league where he had a decent track record previously) would take Ziggy on loan and cover 50k a week and I feel that the only way he will go is if his wages are paid partly by Blues. I dont want this to happen because I genuinely feel his retention can prevent another relegation. His absence in the final weeks of the last premiership campaign was a key factor in us going down then and this should be avoided, but, I am fearful.
You get the feeling that PP has been given a remit by CY – make no bones about it, CY is still pulling whatever strings are left at BIH, to try and ensure that Blues are sold in order to get the biggest return on their original investment. He (PP) was hardly going to accept a low salary and no bonus for a fairly Herculean task.
In reality CY was struggling before the asset freeze was placed upon him; we were selling players and cost-cutting as soon as we were relegated and CY was not arrested until later and the freeze came into effect later still. The truth is he could never make up the shortfall by himself and has probably realised that he was out of his depth financially when the truth hit home after we went down. The only thing that would have ‘saved’ us, is if we had bounced straight back.
The accounts show us – as Almajir has clearly stated – selling is the only way we shall continue to function. PP’s salary becoming general knowledge will not matter one iota to the HK connection because they are looking for an exit at the earliest opportunity and do not really care how we feel or think.
That Xtep fiasco has really made a farce of what was going on, and the only saving grace is if ‘proper’ new owners can be found in time.
If not, by August of this year we could be very near to that dreaded ‘A’ word…
So what happens when the parachute payments disappear? Even if we got rid of Zigic and other high earners such as Carr, Fahey (i’m sure my employer would let me go home indefinitely on compassionate leave with full pay), Murphy, etc. etc. (who have amassed 21 ganes between them) we couldn’t survive!
Who says Fahey is on full pay?
Blues are caught in a death-spiral. There are a 1001 things people can do on a saturday afternoon, there’s no guarantee that Blues fans will pay to see inferior football, for the same price that they used to pay to watch better football.
Loyalty doesn’t come into it, people no longer feel it necessary to pay money to be bored, cold and miserable for two hours on a Saturday.
Mark
If you don’t want to come any longer that;s fair enough. I truly don’t have a problem with people who jack it in.
Just admit you’re no longer a fan and don’t turn up at Wembley or Europe.
Who put you in charge? Who cares what you think? Nobody needs to justify themselves to you…go on get a life (or a job) and stop spending all day as some self-appointed authority on all things Blue!
You don’t understand what happens on an internet forum do you?
I guess you’re another non-goer? I seem to have upset a few today, wonder why?
Truth hurts pal
And by the way I think this site is Dan/Almajirs, as long as he’s cool with me being here I’ll stay thanks.
Keep posting PC. Your speaking on behalf of many true Blues, the ones who stayed loyal. The ones that cared before the Premier League, during our stay in the Prem, at Wembley, in Europe and now at the bottom end of the Championship.
Tired and weary, joys and sorrow? Not a chance, we fall from grace you cant see them for dust.
I’m sick to death of fans who seem to think that going to Blues every week makes them morally superior to other people. If someone doesn’t want to go to watch Barnsley but does want to go to Bruges who is to say they are not entitled to do so? If they can get a ticket good for them. It’s not treason.
People have a choice, A choice of whether to go or not, whether they complain or not and a choice of when they go and when they don’t.
People are not accused of disloyalty by cinemas when they don’t go to every new film so why accuse them of it in what is, after all only another sector of the entertainment industry?
I go because I want to but I have no gripe with the stay aways. Perhaps they are just more sensible than I am.
So if you are one of the holier than thou brigade. Give it a rest.
I don.t think anyone on here thinks they are morally superior, Paul just has a go at people that don’t attend, but then whinge about our current plight. It’s a bit like someone like Jimmy Carr criticising the government not spending enough whilst he pays zero tax.
R.Smith
I absolutely agree.
To say people who no longer attend or do not attend regulrly are not fans is an insult to many blue noses. My first game 1966, Northampton at home, boxing day I think, 3-0 and Johnny Vincent scored at least one. In the 46 years since then I have attended probably 600-700 games, I do not go regularly now, been to 5 home games this season, probably won’t go again, so according to PTVOR I am no longer a fan. A disappointing and disrespectful opinion from a fellow blue nose (if I am allowed to call him that). Why won’t I go, simple, haven’t really enjoyed the games. Nothing has made me want to go back.
My hat off to all of you like Paul who attend week in week out, I work with a lad never misses a game, home, away, friendly, it’s his life, not mine or many others, but we are still fans. There must be fathers and grandfathers out there who don’t attend (health like my late grandad)who have watched blues for years who would be so insulted not to called a fan.
As for Wembly season ticket holders, Brugge Fans, please change the record. We have an average attendance 16/17,000, so if it was up to the PTVOR these would be the only attendees at Wembley, that would look great. It happens at every ground in the country. Non league club this week in the cup, 6000 crowd, when a player was asked how many would they get next week he replied about 450. Ask the players what they would like to play in front of a full gate or the loyal 450.
And that is exactly the same for Blues, we are never going to fill the ground week in week out, whether you think we should or not is irrelevent and a pointless arguement. But for those semi finals, play offs or other important games, the players and the regular fans, except PTVOR, would want the place rocking, and I for one would be there. This is nothing new, I remember getting Arsenal back to Stans after a draw at Highbury back in the 70’s, Geoff Vowden scored at Highbury. Tuesday night and got locked out because the ground was full. Was it full every home game, well you know the answer.
And what about those who spend money on merchandise but only attend a couple of games.
I think a little more understanding for those who no longer go, or rarely go, is needed for we all are and always will be a Blue Nose and a fan.
I repeat, if we all stop going what happens to Blues?
Would there have been a Wembley and a Europe had we all stayed away for years?
Stop going cos we’re crap? If that was the yardstick the place would have been boarded up long ago. You see support means turning up if we’re crap. Putting the money in, literally keeping the club alive. Hoping things get better. What it doesn’t mean is fecking off, not putting a penny in and waiting for the next big event whilst letting others finance the club.
Those who went when we were crap and who keep going now we’re crap kept/keep the club going so you and others like you could enjoy Wembley and Europe. We made it possible by our hard earned cash for the club to keep going so the fair weather fans could have their day in the sun.
Paul, you miss my main point. Since I have been a supporter and a fan nothing has changed. We never filled the ground back in the 60/70’s except for the semi finals etc, and it’s the same today. And I imagine there were supporters such as yourself banging on about how everyone should get down, AND IT NEVER HAPPENED. So why think it will change now.
As for the fans keeping the club alive, it helps, but even if we had 29,000 every week, in our current state we would still go under. There is no club in the top two divisions where the income from the fans meets the running costs. So a person to bankroll the club, any club, is vital.
And if we go down the core support will drop even further, so are you saying to those who cease being a season ticket holder after goodness knows how many seasons ”you’re no longer a fan? You’re a fair weather supporter?’
Not everyone comes from your perspective and you need to realise that, but that doesn’t mean they’re not a fan. I didn’t stop going because they’re crap, like you say, I’d have missed a load more games. And cost, whatever you think is a factor. Yes many people can afford it, but it’s about choice. Do two of us go down and spend £60-£80 for a couple of hours something that isn’t good, or go out and have a good meal etc, because many people can’t do both. You should respect their choice, yours would be the Blues every time and good luck to you, but for many other fans it isn’t.
Paul;, vor. Time to stop this now, !!. Everyone has the god given right to their own opinions, [ including you ], But, please cease trying to ram your views, down everyone elses throats, !!.
As the Voice of Reason, ?. please show some, !!.
So you buy into the death of your club?
One question, what happens to Blues if everybody stops going?
You sure you go? Or was it just Wembley and Brugges for you feller?
Firstly, I cannot believe that the Xtep deal went unnoticed and obviously the small print was never seconded / scrutinised for the safety of BCFC and BIHL. But we found this out.
Secondly, no one on BIHL questioned the salary scale of ‘the director’ at BCFC? Exactly where would the income into the club come from to justify this one outgoing?
Along with everyone else, I am disgusted at this lack of business sense. This kind of rogue trader behaviour is something that not only directors in many companys get fired for, but would never be able to reach such catastrophic lengths in the first place. It is definately an oxymoron that PP himself was tasked with preventing BCFC from financial administration. I still find that a question posed here a few days ago was; Where does BIHL get it’s income, if no money has left these shores to it?
This news is quite a catalyst in fan power at the moment, or the potential for it, if the organisation and will to do it was there.
What can I say! It is disgraceful and only shows the betrayal to the fans. What would I say to those shareholders, CY and PP if I had a chance? …I think it would be:
‘This is our club, you just own it. Your job is to make it profitable and manage it with rules and common sense. We are the not simply the paying customer, we are the lifeblood of Birmingham City. We dont pass through, we are here to stay’.
(or something like that!)
Detailed analysis from Blues Trust here.
http://www.bluestrust.org/2013/01/blues-trust-responds-to-birmingham-citys-latest-accounts/
Now is the time to see just what ” clout ” the Trust have, ?.
The questions asked are very pertinent to our near future, !!. We indeed have no knowledge of what financial input is needed to keep us afloat until the end of the season, [ leave alone to the end of 2013,!!.
Nothing is quoted as to the hopes of recieving a courteous reply within a reasonable timespan, making due allowance for Peter Pannu, being back in Hong Kong,!!.
In closing, — I salute the Trust for their prompt responce to Alex, !!.
Good points raised by the Trust and it looks as if we are all starting to focus in the same direction.
The concerns noted by almajir and BT should be given due attention by PP / BIH, but going on previous form they will simply stay silent.
So, so frustrating.
I am curious. I assume after paying PP over £600k in wages he is still putting his expenses claims in! Also wonder what the expenses value was. Are BCFC paying these high wages as BIH can’t afford to pay them.
Lastly, anyone recommend where to drink in Huddersfield Saturday, If your’e going…see you there KRO
if you stand outside the away end,look across the road to the right and go up thye hill theres a nice pub on the left that we’ve used a few times
sorry this norovirus is sending me gaga.
go over the river bridge and just head towards where leeds road used to be,10 min walk to the club on the corner or pups on leeds rd
http://www.southendunited-mad.co.uk/feat/edw8/let_the_station_take_the_strain_pub_crawl_in_huddersfield_438918/index.shtml
Well done to them.
What kind of time frame will the trust give to receive an answer? What will they do if no answer comes or an unsatisfactory one?
Paul
Are you a traffic warden or auditor as your comments are so pedantic and annoying. What are you hoping to achieve by your comments which deride every criticism of what is happening at my beloved Blues. You obviously must be paid a lot for very little work the way you respond to the comments of Blues fans who are struggling to make ends meet. Shame on you.
Lovin the irony in that post :)
Statement from Blues Trust–
http://www.bluestrust.org/2013/01/blues-trust-responds-to-birmingham-citys-latest-accounts/
At long last it would appear that fan power and the fantastic work Almajir has commissioned has hopefully backed PP and the board into a culdesac -hopefully we will get some answers to some very important questions.
Almajir, do you know if any monies are owed to BCFC from player sales ie sell on clauses etc. Surely the money for the players that were sold after the Carling cup was not paid in one lump sum.
Almajir, what happened to the HSBC debenture?
Swindon Town have a supporter’s campaign to raise £30k so they can keep 3 of their current loan players. If Swindon are that desperate, the last thing they will want is Caddis back and his wages to boot. Surely there is a lot of room for manouvre here and it wouldnt cost a lot to encourage Swindon to depart with Caddis on a mutually agreeable basis? I for one will be well p*****d off if I hear that Caddis has gone elsewhere for a song!
can’t go anywhere till end of season unless blues agree to cancel loan, also player and swindon have to agree also.
If we are running at a 4m loss at present even if we sold all our high earners we’d struggle to earn a profit. Basically we are screwed and it will only worsen unless we are sold. I agree with the other posters it seems like a conflict of interests for pannu to sell us as he’s making a tidy sum from us.
What happens when there’s no players of value left? Do they sell the ground? Relegation and administration may be bitter pills to swallow but may be the quickest way to a new owner.
It’s what i’ve been saying but BIHL will sell the last roll of toilet paper before they allow admin, as admin means they lose control of club and will only get a few pence per pound that we owe them and Yeung from any administrators.
Admin would make Paladini’s offer look like gold dust as club would be sold for less than £5 mill.
we’d easliy make a trading profit if certain players left as i believe these players must be earning about:
Zigic (approx £2.5 million), Fahey (approx £0.75 million), Davies (approx £1.25 million), Carr (approx £1.25 million) Murphy (approx £0.75 million) and King (approx £1.0 million).
Take out £5 mill for Lc, McDermott etc, Doctors, Physio’s Admin and Groundstaff, leaving £20 million in wages for players and Academy. This needs to be cut to £15 million from £25 million asap.
We sell all those and we’ll be relegated. Lower league, poorer crowds, no parachute payments, less income. They sell more players as the wages will be too high for this new league, the vicious circle continues and we drop further and further into the abyss.
Providing we come out if Admin through a CVA we keep the parachute payments going down. I got that info from, I believe, a credible Portsmouth fan
How have Portsmouth kept them then? They’re still in admin.
Ajl. They haven’t come out of Admin but when they do there will be some rules to obey to continue to be eligible. No idea what but I would hazard a guess at CVA, paying football related debts. Didn’t Southampton keep theres that way
Ajl. They haven’t come out of Admin but when they do there will be some rules to obey to continue to be eligible. No idea what but I would hazard a guess at CVA, paying football related debts. Didn’t Southampton keep theres that way
Mayor has pannu got back to you yet regarding yesterday’s blog?..
Pannu deserved his salary for all that extra effort on June 30th to find £12000 in revenue or savings by midnight :-)
All those who sung for Gold and Sullivan to go need to take a long hard look at themselves. All they needed was a bit of TLC and I’m sure they would have stayed. The grass isn’t always greener. I wouldn’t berate anyone who decided not to renew their season ticket next year. Landing in the same crisis financially and football wise gets a bit of demoralising after a while.
I think a lot of people may be missing something here.
Pannu is being paid to do several jobs at once in favour of a previous board – most of which have been binned – who were either doing nothing or conspiring to make toxic deals (Xtep).
He is trying to run BCFC like a business – rather than a fan – which is how football clubs should be run and 99% of them aren’t. Sadly that means the pain of realising when your main sources of income (1. Gate receipts, 2. Merchandise Sales, 3. Sponsorships, 4. Cash from Carson) are dwindling or non-existent you keep the books balanced by making harsh decisions, such as selling better players or offloading dross.
He is probably being paid £600k to do all this and try to find a buyer/sort of Carsons legal issues at the same time. The fact that there’s now no Vico Hui or Steve McManaman (for example) is perhaps testament to PP banging a few heads together and saying to CY “let me run this, I will sort it out”.
Also, IF CY is innocent who better to entrust Blues to than the guy you have worked with for over 20 years who you trust to keep the ship afloat until you’re acquitted of alleged wrong-doing and can turn up again at Stans, apologise and pull out the cheque book again?
Just a theory, and you never know how close to the truth it could be.
Maybe it’s just in my nature not to think of PP or CY as crooks who are trying to kill our club any more than I would berate a supporter for not wanting to rush down to Stans to watch Barnsley, Peterborough, Watford et al give us a seeing to….possibly.
When it comes down to it we are still not that much closer to knowing the truth (despite certain facts coming to light) as the ‘horse’ hasn’t opened his mouth properly. Chinese culture perhaps would not allow it anyway so perhaps patience is needed.
I know we’re all fast running out of it, but I for one won’t let it stop me going to games, believing we can win with nothing BUT youth players, wanting the best for Lee Clark (especially against Huddersfield) AND knowing the corner will be turned eventually.
If that means the blinkers are on, then thank Christ for the guy that invented them, as the alternative way to think is unthinkable, and the nigh-on 200 posts above me in part help to prove that in its entirety.
KRO
Hands up those who no longer believe the club is being financially raped!
Art, are you for real, where is the evidence, after all this you still say money is illegally being taken from the club! Two things I don’t agree with, the XTep deal, which has been addressed, and the directors salary, however, we have no idea what Pannu was on before he was a director, how many roles he’s filling, and therefore how much of that fee has been taken off the pay roll.
BlueinSpain.
Open your eyes and you will see.!!
My eyes are wide open pal, apart from the two things I mentioned, please explain what I am missing? In other words put up or shut up.
The whole circus we’ve become just beggars belief.
Pannu on radio telling the fans he “loves” us and to get down coz our support and money is needed! In the meantime he’s taking a healthy salary from our “financially struggling” club. It just goes to show how much he cares. He knew exactly when to run back to Hong Kong. How can someone agree to a salary this high, plus expenses no doubt, when we can’t afford to sign players for a threadbare squad as were skint! The whole thing stinks. I bet he’s getting a good salary from BIHL as well. £60k for leasing a property? He could have stayed at travel lodge for £20 a night- that wouldn’t amount to much as he’s hardly ever in the country.
The Xtep deal- you couldn’t make it up, we pay to wear the kit lmfao!! Oh, and why the hell is Pauline Wong still in her position at BIHL? Why has Hui still not been sanctioned for allowing money to go to a make shift company? Why haven’t Xtep been sued for using our design on another teams kit?
There’s no reason to doubt why the accounts are STILL not published- cant wait ’til they are.
It is time for transparency now and we need to know the whole truth about everything.
We fans need to stick together and now the Trust has responded it’s never been such an important time to join. They seem to now be thinking along the same lines as us and it’s time to get this lot out of our precious club- before its too late. The Trust has prompted a national media outlet to do an article and I hope it’s only the beginning. Now it’s time to make the Chinese media do the same.
Almajir- keep blogging, you’re amazing- showing up our local journalists! I’ll enjoy your blogs while I still can!
Louise;, Well stated case for further investigation, love. !!. The national press is picking up on what started with us, went on through the trust, [ thanks, Alex, !! ]. and the momentum is increasing now, !!.
Hopefully, It will ” spark ” some response from Peter Pannu, [ as C,Y. ] does NOT himself ] address us in any way, shape or form, ??.
This whole forward funding thing…is this where we get an investment company to give us the money up front for future season ticket or other incomes?
Mortgaging our future like that is something we should really avoid.
Is it possible that the Directors Pay relates to Yeung minor and that PP was paid by BIH from management fee charged to BCFC. If BCFC can’t prove he ‘earned’ it they would be liable to
Corporation Tax on it as well as being unable to recover NI and Income Taxes paid
All I can say is information I have from sources I cannot name indicate that money was to Pannu.
Fair enough
Almajir, do you know if Mr Hui is still involved in any capacity at BIHL?
ahem.
OMG!!
I feel sick!
Join the club, Louise,!!. I had thought him long gone, ???.
It’s been in the back of my mind for some time. When Pannu “outed” Hui, he said the deal was done by himself and Miss Wong. She’s still in situe so it wouldn’t surprise me if he stepped down from the board to make it look like he’d been caught out, when really it was just a cover up. I thought Pannu had probably told him to “do one and we’ll say no more.” Hui and Wong are probably still on the payroll at BIHL- which is just sickening and so wrong on so many levels.
So, nothing will be done internally about the mysterious “Birmingham Hong Kong” and the work they did to deserve the money they received, or the contract agreed for Bcfc to pay Xtep for the kit supplies. I think myself BIHL will go bust before the accounts are released, so we will never find out what has gone on. Thing is, we could really do with that money now, it could stop the sale of young Jack, which I’ll be really really miffed about. Why has Pannu not done anything!
It is all very very muddy waters.
Unfortunately, I do not believe a word Pannu says anymore. He’s gonna end up going from a well respected lawyer- to…you know what I’m thinking.
Jesus I am so very worried for our club. I was worried this morning, but this afternoon I could cry!
Please, anyone who hasn’t already, join the Trust. It’s a fiver and it needs us just as much as we need it.
Almajir,you sound very gullable to me. Pannu apportioned Blues’ financial problems on poor support,but we now see that he is taking, almost three quarters of a million pound out of the club,for doing nothing that is helping the situation. It’s no suprise, that he is in no rush, to sell the club and a Hong Kong deal,would probably be more beneficial to his bank account. More proof the club’s predicament is down to rank bad management,from the top ! It’s lucky, that we have very good office staff attending to the finances at St. Andrews.
Eh?
Blues lack cashflow. Lower support this year means less cash through the turnstiles means less cash for the club. That is an undoubted fact, and is not helping the situation.
No denying Pannu’s wage is pretty scandalous.. but it’s not the only factor…
Yes you are right and if you recall I forecasted the danger of this in October when it was evident that Clark was not up to the job.Success on the field leads to more gate and commercial revenue.His failure to deliver a “play off place team”has made a significant contribution to our current financial position but know doubt some will blame the fans for not turning up to watch a second rate team and a manager who is totally out of his depth.
Yes I remember you forcasting an unprecedented injury crisis, you are so smug and sanctimonious! Were you financially raped at some point?
An infantile reply as usual.
Check put Clarks record pre-injuries.,
It has to be infantile, it’s the only thing you understand,
If anyone “has made a significant contribution to our current financial position” then it’s Peter Pannu. Doesn’t he look after the overall day to day running of the club? This club has earned plenty of money in BIH’s time (mainly by Alex McLeish) and it has been mismanaged by the board and certainly not Lee Clark.
Colin Tattum got it right last week with his “house built on sand” quote.
[…] Lee was implicated in the ill-fated Xtep deal whilst Mr Zhou was recently noted to not have undergone mandated […]
“The announcement made to the stock exchange confirms that Mr Lee Yiu Tung and Mr Zhou Han Ping have both been removed from the board. Mr Lee had not attended a board meeting for six months whilst Mr Zhou has not attended a meeting for the whole of 2012.
Mr Lee was implicated in the ill-fated Xtep deal whilst Mr Zhou was recently noted to not have undergone mandated training.”
Very naughty to whoever posted the above
Why was it naughty?
The announcement confirmed what was written.
Mr Lee was one of three people implicated in the Xtep deal (along with Pauline Wong and Vico Hui) and Mr Zhou didn’t undergo the mandated training set by the HKSE as BIH announced in December.
Isn’t it implying that it’s Lee Clark as opposed to LYT?
No, cos he would be Mr Clark, wouldn’t he?
Chinese names have the surname first
[…] Lee was implicated in the ill-fated Xtep deal whilst Mr Zhou was recently noted to not have undergone mandated […]
This is what I was replying too.
The original says “Mr Lee was implicated in the ill-fated Xtep deal whilst Mr Zhou was recently noted to not have undergone mandated training.”
If you look at the Art Watson post, there is the opinion that LC has a significant contribution to the current financial situation. Hence, whoever posted “Lee was implicated etc.” sounds like LC to me.
Also, I’m not accusing AW of posting misleading info.
I’ve been attending Blues games home and away since I was 8 years old (1962), over the course of those FIFTY f*cking years I have supported Blues through think and (mostly) thin. I have spent thousands of pounds on tickets and merchandise. I don;t need to be subjected to finger-wagging and lessons on loyalty from the likes of you people.
Birmingham City – the club that I loved – has become a plaything of people who hold us fans in total contempt, sniggering all the way to the bank. Now if not wanting to put more money in the hands of the people who stole my club and continue to lie and cheat and steal to this very day, makes me ‘disloyal’ well then so be it – call me disloyal f*ck it, but you can’t stop me being angry or expressing my anger.
I’ve decided I’m gonna buy a Bears season ticket instead, at least that’s still something like sport.
comment edited. please asterisk swear words appropriately and be careful of using words that could be construed as libellious
How can the truth be libellous?
Do you know that it’s the truth? For sure? That you could prove in a court of law?
Quite simply, I’m not risking anything that could be construed as libellious.
In answer to your questions yes, yes and yes.
Well, unfortunately I don’t believe you. And it’s my website, so it’s my rules.
Sorry