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Renewal
Judging by the multitude of comments on the article regarding the recent BIH announcement there is a feeling amongst some fans that season tickets shouldn’t be renewed until the accounts situation is sorted out. As someone asked me what I thought, I thought I’d jot down my feelings on the situation.
The whole buying tickets/season tickets subject is a very emotive issue. The most important thing I think people should remember when discussing it is that it’s a personal choice – and as much as you might think someone is a plastic/mug for not renewing/renewing a season ticket one has to accept it’s an individual decision for the parties involved.
I can certainly empathise with people who want to withhold their season ticket cash until the accounts are produced. The uncertainty surrounding the club’s future that some people are feeling notwithstanding, it’s the one effective method of protest that fans have. Withholding cash will directly hit the people who own the club and if enough people do it it could well give the financial projections that they are working to a hefty shake.
As I know that some people are concerned Blues may slip into the dreaded “A” word, I asked the FSF what the legal situation was surrounding season tickets and administration, and I was told that whilst legally the season tickets do not have to be honoured, in practice they have been in every single case of administration – it’s generally part of the deal administrators will strike with a new owner to protect the fans. Furthermore, if you buy a season ticket via a credit card you will be further protected by the credit card company.
The way I see it – and I stress, this is my personal opinion – is that I’m going to renew. If I have the temerity to hope that Chris Hughton stays with all the crapola swirling around BIH then I have to put my money where my mouth is. Furthermore, I’m of the belief that whilst the current situation is crap, it cannot remain this way for too much longer – something has to give. One would think that with Carson having the prospect of losing his home on Monday he’s given some serious thought to an exit strategy now and that maybe ownership of the club would change.
Whilst I can understand that people may well be cynical enough to withhold their cash until something does give – and believe me, I did give some thought to that – I can’t do that personally. Blues have never been a club where things go easily and I realised a long time ago to be a follower you have to take the rough with the slightly less rough, it’s the way it goes. Blues probably need the season ticket cash a lot right now – I don’t buy into the theory that it’ll all get sucked to Hong Kong whatsoever – and I figure I’d rather do something positive and be a part of the club than try about bringing change by what I see as negative means.
I don’t expect people to agree with me. There is nothing anyone could say that would convince me, let alone the idea I could convince other people that the situation will be resolved quickly – purely because there have been too many empty words and promises on the accounts already. That’s fair enough. However, I see renewal of my ST as my renewal of my faith and belief in the club that we will do better next season, that there will be things to cheer and to be proud of. I accept that that may be seen as blind faith, but when has football ever been rational?
Tags: Accounts, Renewals, Season Tickets
58 Responses to “Renewal”
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Its only accounts that we are waiting for! Its not the key to the universe, its accounts just like the accounts my local pub/newsagents/ garage HAVE to produce
For crying out loud it aint rocket science Mr Yeung get the accounts out it does not mater what they say and let CH get on ith the job.
Accounts cannot just be produced they have to be signed off by auditors who will not do this if they have issues with them.
My understanding is that they HAVE been signed off (BCFC’s that is) – complete with auditor concerns.
My understanding, also, is that it is the dovetailing of ‘our’ accounts within the BIHL accounts (as the parent company), that is causing the delay.
Whether it is a ‘minor’ glich on perception – phraseology – or even depreciated amounts being in dispute, we don’t know.
They all exist. Both sets of accounts – I think it’s the compatability that is the problem.
:-(
On STs?
If a person can afford to buy a Season, and chooses not to, as a form of protest – fine.
BUT…that is making Blues’ cash flow even worse. And it’s been bad enough since the Carson chute was chopped.
If a person will struggle to buy a Season, then that is a totally different matter and that reason should be forwarded, instead of hiding behind the “protest” lobby. ( I’ve two people I know…one knocked back to PT work and the other getting divorced, yet both claim it’s a protest, not financial) Well, you can’t hammer people for saving face, but I think that the economic reality we all live in now, will slightly distort the real reasons for a slower uptake on STs.
Villa had 20,000 STs last year, and huge caterwauling about none-take ups if McLeish stayed on.
He’s gone, and the spin from VP is huge ST sales, now…. :-)
They are barely above 11,000 STs now – and anyone now buying pays the new price.
So, those ‘refuseniks’ about McLeish haven’t rushed back. And I don’t think too many of our doubters will either.
It’s about jobs and income more than about protests. imo.
There is no shame in people saying that, but I wonder how many choose to use the excuse of Blues’ board, financial uncertainty etc, as a reason for not buying.Rather than the brutal truth of their own economics.
Blues don’t receive the next parachute payment till the window closes….we have to pay everyone, players and admin,tea ladies and groundstaff, physios and marketeers…everyone – throught the next few months without any source of income other than Season Ticket sales.
If you can afford a Season, by withholding or delaying, you are probably endangering some Blues’ jobs. Is that worth making a point about Carson Yeung ?
I have had to struggle with the misses to economically justify my purchase for the last 20 years! £500 may be incedental social expenditure for some, but it aint for me! When i was made redundant three years ago and given no redundancy pay as my employers went into admmin, I had to survive on £63 JSA per week for 6 months then 3 months on sweet FA. I applied to the Blues for a job as a Business Development Manager for which I had a great CV and they didnt even see fit to reply to me! So if my reticence to buy a ST without seeing the promised certificate of commercial viability may result in issues for some employeees of BCFC does not cause me to lose sleep, then please forgive me!
I have been a supporter for 47 years and a season ticket holder for over 20 years. I have 3 kids and 3 grandkids with another on the way. I am also saving to finance my retirement especially as we all know that state pensions have been delayed and private and company schemes decimated. I am probably a typical 50 something Bluenose of whom there are probably several thousand of us. So, I have several “genuine needs” competing for my very limited resources. Now the club are asking me to invest £500 in a product which at this point in time is an unknown quantity. I love my club, I have a wardrobe full of Blues apparell. I have renewed my ticket year in and year out. BUT at the end of the day as much as I love being part of the fraternal Bluenose community, I am NOT going to purchase my ticket as an act of blind loyalty. If the club can not inform, comfort and assure me that next season will be campaigned on a sound basis, then I will not invest. THEY HAVE UNTIL 2nd JULY TO WIN ME OVER. If they fail to deliver then I am afraid next season will be PAY AS YOU GO!! (Same goes for the 3 people I attend with!)
Well said Bluenosesol
It’s not only the accounts, it’s the refusal to acknowledge us fans as worthy enough to be told what is going on at the club. All season long we’ve been asking for communication but apart from Pee Pee waving his wallet at us in Madeira there’s been nowt of any substance. Whoever thinks that 25,000 fans have no right to know what’s going on at their beloved club is barmy. Myself and my family have devoted our lives to the good of this club, now we’ve ended up with this lot who don’t seem to think they have to tell us jack, waltz around the financial compliance laws then put their hands out and ask for more of our dough. More amazingly we have fans who buy into this and think it’s ok.
Carson is grounded in Hong Kong, he hasn’t had his tounge ripped out of his mouth nor has Pee Pee. Show us fans some respect and tell us what the hell is going on. Until then no dough from me and mine.
Exactly what questions do you want answered ?
The only question that is relevant is, are Blues going to be playing football next season. The answer is yes.
People go on about loyalty, Hughton blah, blah, their own finances, Yeung etc. Really it’s a side show, Yeung after all faces losing everything, his home the lot AND prison. Any comments are likely to be subject to the sub judiciary rules and people still demand ‘answers’ before forking out their 400 quid.
I agree with another poster, all aboard the BCFC roller coaster for another season of agony and ecstasy….. Joys and Sorrows…
Renewed like the addict i am, bring on the next rollercoaster !
I have much respect for your comments and i beg you to get in touch with the local media like the ‘Birmingham Mail’ so fans can rest assure that there money is safe. I fear that many fans are holding on to there hard earned cash and will only cause further damage to the finances of the club. My one fear is that your website doesnt reach out to all supporters and thats why i feel that you should do this.
I totally agree with the above comment and that is the mail, possibly through colin tattum, could voice our concerns and demand proper answers. What my worry is that we sell both Foster and Butland, with both keepers in demand. It doesnt take an einstein to decide which one we want to keep. Im of the belief Hughton would walk if the club started selling its assets and then we would see a major decline in season tickets. The board slapped a £12 million tag on Redmond and they should at least do the same with Butland. I understood the departure of players last summer but now is the time to keep our better players and if we do that, season tickets should sell well enough.
If they sell butland and foster then they won’t have a goalie in the first team for next season. won’t be able to sign one bosman or any kind until the embargo is lifted. they will have to use one of the academy goalies so i don’t see it happening! Zigic maybe ashe is supposedto be the only player lefton big money although he’sprobably done some deal with the club or they’d have gotrid of him by now?!
I am under the impression that since the 0% finance offer is legally a credit agreement then buying by this method gives you the same protection as buying on a credit card.
If you know your Just William then you’ll understand me when I say stop scweaming and scweaming and scweaming, it’ll not get PP bursting into tears and asking for forgiveness. Better than not renewing STs would be – take gun, aim at foot, fire. That may make page 5 of the Mail, unless of course you miss 87( . Blues have always had problems with owners and always will unless the supporters can grab them by the sphericals and squeeze hard. Trouble is, that takes time and effort and is not as momentarily satisfying as a good, foot stamping SCWEAM!!!!
Damn! That smiley didn’t work 87( not :(
Anyone got a ‘How to create smiley faces’ reference book?
Renewed yesterday, worried about the future but will always go down to support my team.
Look until the accoun ts are published no-one can be sold or bought, and the club can’t plan properly for next season. They can still go on their pre-season tours,but the ways things are carying on the team next season is going to have to be augmented by academy players! We’ll have Ben Foster in goal, but all the loanies will be gone, and the club won’t be able to bring anybody else in until the transfer embargo is lifted. I can’t see them selling anybody with the embargo in place as the squad is small enough asit is. if anyone goes out they won’t be able to bring anyone in to replace them so there will be no point.
Well reasoned blog by Almajir.
But. To date CY and BIHL – even the so-called BCFC board, simply have not been giving the Blues fans much consideration with their decision making process. Regardless of their mode of operation, it is imperative that they kept/keep communication channels clear and open. Simply hasn’t been the case.
This decision based on ST buying/renewals is the one opportunity we get as fans to perhaps influence their thoughts and actions and we should decide whether holding back – not abandoning buying them – will be suffice to hasten a decision on many fronts regarding the accounts and even the long-term ownership of our club.
But. Almajir is very correct in stating that we need to show CH, the team and and the employees of the club who really are doing a grand job when considering the environment they are having to operate in, that we care and wish to show our total loyal support for them. Driving around Brummagem and seeing billboards with our club splashed across them, brings feelings of joy at first and anger after, at what is currently happening.
Will ST revenue really make a stubborn person and/or organisation sit-up and take notice?? Will they revert to form and simply sell a player or two to keeping things ticking over until they finally get round to making the crucial decisions that are needed??
It is a complex situation with many various permutations. Maybe Monday’s hearing regarding CY’s home repossession will act as the lever for change – as stated by Almajir.
At this stage, my only hope is that we do not wake up one morning to find that things have deteriorated to such an extent that the prophecy of so many pessimists has come true, and that we are in a..a.. Cannot bring myself to even say that bloody word.
Dirty One, in your honour I shall attempt a face for the first ever time :(
they can’t sell anymore until this embargo is lifted. there is only 17 players in the first team squad now. if they sell anymore they won’t be able to put out a team next season!
They could Nicky, it would just be full of kids.
That’s what i said, so there would be no point unless they were made a silly offer i.e. enough to clear their debts, and a bit more for it to be worthwhile!
That’s what i said, so there would be no point unless they were made a silly offer for it to be worthwhile!
so there would be no point unless they were made a silly offer i.e enough to clear their debts and a bit more for it to be worthwhile!
;->
Suga! on my mobile that is a devil face. Come on al, let’s have the full range. We need something to lighten the mood.
So you know, I hate smilies and if I could ban them all I would.
The ones that are on here are courtesy of wordpress.
How :(
A preview button would be useful too.
ready to sell ??
Is Tatts trying to tell us something Almajir ?
This from Twitter earlier, its deffo got the message boards a little excited,……
Throstle Fantastic @ThrstleFantstic
@colintattum purely speculative by everyone. Is there any real evidence they are ready to sell?
Reply
1 Jun Colin Tattum @colintattum
@thrstlefantstic yes, they are ready to sell
Reply
1 Jun Throstle Fantastic @ThrstleFantstic
@colintattum just left with the usual problem then of finding someone ‘suitable’, ‘fit and proper’ and have the money they say they have.
Reply
1 Jun Colin Tattum @colintattum
@thrstlefantstic ain’t that the way of things…..we shall see
You should ask him…
the blues team is only 17 strong including foster.i can’t see them selling while this transfer embargp is in place otherwise they’ll have to put out a team of kids next season! Before they can sell they need to be able to get a replacement in,and can’t do that with transfer embargo in place not even a bosman!
Is there any information on the impact this is having on the season ticket sales?
Are they up or down compared to last year.?
I suspect the sales will be up -reflecting a very successful season.
plenty of mug punters about!!
I have just been down and renewed for eight of us who sit together. This is Blues, it has been like this for years – it goes with the territory. After last season, can’t wait for next, really hope CH is still there but will be there myself no matter what. With Munchengladbach in a friendly – going to Austria too – anyone who went to Europa last year will know what a great craic it all was.
I am in the fortunate position where the cost of a season ticket is not make or break for me and I will renew next week. I will also be renewing for a young family member. Being a natural pessimist I fully expect CH to leave followed by an exodus of our better players and for no improvement in the financial mess which is BIH. Our beloved club needs its fans now and I will be there next season whatever. I fully understand those who are reluctant to commit and as Daniel says it’s down to personal choice. Seeing BCFC ladies lift the FA cup last week really raised my spirits and I plan to take in as many of their home games over the forthcoming weeks starting tomorrow.
Renewed on Friday along with may mate. Total of 5 tickets. Staff said about 1000 renewed so far
I guarantee if supporters refuse to buy season tickets then the likes of Butland and whoever else is a saleable asset will be sold by BIHL.
The current blues squad is only 17 strong including foster. if they sell foster butland redmond then they won’t be able to put out a team next season because of the transfer embargo. They can’t even sign bosmans while it is in place, so we’ll be watching the academy players next season unless this situation changes!
Bluenosesol, I think you’re just making excuses not to renew because you can’t afford too. Don’t blame the club situation if you’ve been a season ticket holder for 20 years. At the beginning of that period we were in a far worse situation under the Kumar’s. If you bought then, and there weren’t many you should buy now. It looks like you have become a glory hunter, well if you have go and follow another club because in my 47 years we’ve won one cup and I fully expect that is all I will see in my lifetime.
Glory Hunter??? Are you sure you are a Bluenose, cos no True Bluenose that I have ever known would insult a fellow lifelong Bluenose like that. I was one of the 5000 that turned out to see us play Wimbedon on a freezing cold St Andrews night, so trust yuou were there too! Most wage earners can “afford” £500 but if you ae of an intellectual disposition you need to understand what is the value proposition of your investment and if its not evident, then as a duty of care to your loved ones, should you be spending that hard earned cash else where? Shame on you!
“Intellectual disposition”. That’s great, an insult from someone who can’t even find a few hundred quid at your age.
After that, I should be tempted to rest my case. As I said “most wage earners can AFFORD £500”, its a matter of priorities. A divide appears to be appearing between those of us that believe we should ignore personal priorities, accept that BCFC is the most important thing in our lives and pay over hard earned cash for a potential pig in a poke and those of us who dont buy the blind loyalty pitch and will keep our money in our accounts until such times as the club have the decency to inform us of whether our investment is sound or parlous. The ability to “find” money at the age of 50 plus is down to good fortune and not intelligence, as an intelligent individual would understand. I respect my fellow noses and their respective decisions, I do not try to humiliiate or deride them as I would expect only a member of the opposition to do so, not my Blues Brothers.
Excellent blog Almajir. Thanks for your efforts, especially with regards to the finances of the club.
I wouldn’t blame anyone for not renewing their season tickets as I think in this day and age it’s naive to think of football clubs as anything other than a business – a business that’s mistreated it’s customers – and so should expect a protest from them in the only way available. However, (and I know this is quite selfish) the football and the atmosphere down there has been brilliant at times and I think the team have something a bit special that not even all the BS can detract from and I want to support that. Plus, as others have said, it is part of the attraction to a club like Blues – as with life, the downs make the ups seem so much sweeter.
I also have a sneaking suspicion that CH is actually feeding off all of this nonsense. The more problems there are around him the more impervious he seems to them. He strikes me as the type of man that understands the long game and can see that staying at Birmingham would be the right thing to do no matter what the outcome on or off the pitch. He will still have a chance to hone his skills as a manager, just different skills than he would at a mid-table, middle of the road, Premier League team. He’ll get many chances to manage teams like Fulham, Albion, etc, if he wants to. The circumstances at the Blues are pretty unique and as long as he’s getting a decent wage and basic support I think he’ll revel in the opportunity of another year to build something substantial as he’s nothing lose and everything to gain. For that reason, I’m getting my season ticket.
John: How you can accuse a BCFC supporter of being a ‘glory hunter’ is beyond me.
To the point: To buy or not to by your season ticket! Perhaps a blanket boycott and a refusal to attend matches could be an answer.
On the negative side, we would probably lose Mr Hughton and several, if not all of our more experienced and leading players, plus some of our worthy members of staff.
On the positive side, we would slide down the leagues and end up in Div 2 thus diminishing the value (what value there is) of BCFC even further and then making the club a more attractive proposition for a prospective buyer. A little simplistic??? Maybe!
I’m nearly 70 years old and I am more fearful of the future of Birmingham City FC than ever.
look mate blues can’t sell anymore players the first team stands at 17 players with ben foster. were not chelsea or man city wherte we’ve got excess quality players wecan dispose of for big money all that was done last year.If they soldfosterthey’donly have butland in the first team registered,and they can’t even sign a bosman at the mo so how are they going to put out a team next year from the academy? Calm down and think logically they’ve only got one player they couldpossibly sell if it’s true about his wages,but maybe they’ve done some deal on that?
I renewed my season ticket last week. My belief is that not renewing wouldn’t have any effect on the owners/PP but could have an effect on team building/retention. We have a great manager in CH – now is the time to support him!
can’t build a team while the transfer embargo is in place you doughnut. so renewing your ticket has just helped carson with his court costs! They can’t sell anybody either cause beforeyou sell you need to have a replacement or other players lined up but can’t do that not even a bosman while the embargo is in place haven’t you noticed doyle and carrhaven’t been given new deals yet!
The money is not going to fund Carson’s court case. Season ticket money is about the only cash flow in pre-season and pays the wages of players, staff and tax bills etc. Once the accounts are submitted it can also be used on player acquisitions – even if it’s just the wages of Bosmans. My point is quite simple – a reduction in season ticket money won’t change behaviour in Hong Kong but could affect the day to day running of the club and the budget for any acquisitions once the embargo is lifted. I note also that Doyle has been offered a new deal.
don’t you mean if they’re submitted?At the rate this lot are going the accouints will only be submitted if they’rekicked out!
doyle has beeeen offered a new deal but it can’t be finalised until the embargo is lifted as he is technically like ccarr a bosman!
Well written, I’m with you fully.
I renewed mine the day they were offered – come what may, as long as I can afford it I’ll always hold my ST, it’s part of me and I support the shirt not the owners.
I’ll be renewing my season ticket throught finance before the 2nd of July – but, like everyone, I am concerned what situation we will be in next season.
If we can keep the manager and most of the players, then I think we can definately push for promotion but who knows. We’ll just have to wait and see.
Its incredible isnt it, a little over 12 months ago we were celebrating the greatest day in the clubs history, looking forward to the future and then someone hit us with a very large shovel in the face. As almajir said at the top of the page, its a personal choice whether someone wants to purchase a season ticket, noone should be made to feel any less of a supporter.
Part of the reason,why no one wants to buy our club,is the lack of support. Last season, was one of the best for years. Free flowing football, goals galore,great entertainment,but never once did we fill the ground. Before any one says,yes, but it was in the Championship,it was still entertaining. The previous two seasons had been in the premieship and mostly,it was not entertaining. The number of good games,in those two seasons,could be counted on one hand. Quite honestly,apart from Chelsea and Arsena,I was not impressed by the teams in the premiership ,when they played at St.Andrews. lWhen I pay over my hard earned cash, for my seaon ticket.i hope to be entertained and last seasons ticket,was worth every penny.
how do you know that no-one wants to buy the club? The way this lot carry on they are so stubborn they have probably been made a reasonable offer,but haven’t accepted because it isn’t near the ridiculous £80 million they paid for the club! A fool and his money are easily partedas the saying goes.
Come August we shall start playing again at St Andrews, and I shall be there just as I have been for more than 50 years, probably nearly more than 30 of them as a season ticket holder. My two sons will also be there and they have both got more than 20 years of season tickets each. What ever happens between now and August makes no difference,we shall still be there.
Many on this blog have commented and alluded to how long they have held ST’s and supported Blues for. It is very admirable and shows loyalty, but it is known it takes a special type of person to be a Bluenose. On the whole we are in a league of our own. Forgive me for the pun.
The fact of the matter is that it is not being questioned whether we are loyal or otherwise, merely what is likely to happen in the near future to our football club. Do we try and make our feelings known to CY and BIHL by delaying buying our tickets?? Do we maintain the status quo?? Do we attempt to organise a protest?? Do we accept the no-news coming – or not coming out as the case may be – from PP and the Blues board??
I do not believe that anyone is questioning CH, the players or the staff at the club’s efforts and attempts to keep going in the face of so much uncertainty. As Almajir has said before; Something has to give soon. Question is do we try and hasten it from a fan viewpoint??
We will be playing alright in August. Just let’s hope it is with CH as manager, most of the team that did us proud last season – with a decent addition or two with the embargo lifted, the accounts published and possibly with new owners on the horizon. Oh and no 10 point deduction.
Then and only then can we progress and move forward in a positive direction.