Often Partisan

Audio Podcast – Will Giles Talks About Carson’s Upcoming Appeal Judgement

With the judgement on Carson’s appeal due to be heard in the Court of Appeal in Hong Kong in the next couple of weeks I talked to “Haircuts and League Cups” co-author Will Giles about what is likely to happen.

You can listen to the whole interview here. Right-clicking the link will allow you to download the file for later listening.

Key points Will covers are

  • Carson’s chances of overturning his conviction are good due to the recent change in case law
  • That there are range of possible outcomes ranging from complete acquital to complete dismissal of his appeal – and that acquital may come with an order of a retrial
  • That a retrial would set the whole scenario back to square one which could have major effects on any potential sale of the club
  • That the “Carson Faction” seemed confident that they would win the day

You can order the book here.

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31 Responses to “Audio Podcast – Will Giles Talks About Carson’s Upcoming Appeal Judgement”

  • Mickey07 says:

    Totally and utterly lost with the lot of it dan,I don’t give a monkeys about “pang fi” or whatever his name is,I couldn’t give a flying if carson should keel over and croak it tomorrow etc etc,all I want is for this club to rid themselves of this cancerous mob/gangsters,every time I hear will Giles he just depresses me fella everything I’ve heard from him nothing of what he has ever said seems to come to “fruition” either.

    • almajir says:

      Mickey

      Not true. As an example, Will ans Steve said on the video podcast that the summons hearing would be adjourned for months… as they’ve only got 30 minutes tomorrow its likely.

      If you don’t want to understand the situation that’s fine – and you can stick your head in the sand and hope it will all go away but it won’t.

      • Mickey07 says:

        Just saying dan that’s all,I think he paints a very black picture each time I’ve seen him and nothing he has ever “said” it doesn’t pan out like that in the end fella,he sort of puts everyone into panic mode then after a few days of what he says something usually different happens to what he “might” of predicted…bucket of salt mate,lets see how this latest little podcast pans out then.

        • almajir says:

          Mickey, that’s not true fella.

          It’s called balance – Will is very much in the camp that Receivers aren’t necessarily the magic bullet and he’s right – despite loads of people insisting otherwise Carson has to give his say so to the takeover – and Will is closer to him than any of us are, he knows that Carson isn’t going to bend over and take it.

          Likewise, Will was in the courtroom for the appeal hearing – we weren’t. Before the appeal, Will correctly said why they were going to appeal, how they were going to do it – and who was going to be involved. Listen to what he says – not what you think he says. He’s saying Carson has a good chance – not that he’s going to get off, but he’s got a good chance – and he’s right, the law has changed (in exactly the way he predicted it would in the book) and the way they tried Carson isn’t good enough – which as someone who sat in the courtroom and saw for myself, I can wholeheartedly agree with.

          This little chess match is by no means over and I bet Carson has a few tricks left to pull.

          • Mickey07 says:

            Dan even if tomorrow the judge says “you ain’t going anywhere carson” he will just appeal everything all the time mate as he needs some form of hope whilst stuck in that cell fella as he has a long time to serve in it,I just want someone to stick the sword into him and finally finish him off,hopefully that will be EY and with skeletons they find in the cupboard and they have him cornered with no room to move.but as for tomorrow we can all guess whats going to happen all very predictable.

          • almajir says:

            Mickey

            It doesn’t work like that, does it? You want mob justice – when the truth is Carson didn’t really get justice at all, he got stitched up. I know that grinds your gears but if he’s going to go down it should be for something he has provably done.

    • zxcv says:

      I agree 100% Mickey07, TBH Dan the very last sentence that Will answered is the only on that really matters and that is…. insolvency changes everything that he has just spoken about as far as we are concerned, ie getting the club (asset) sold.. Will himself said the 4million odd would be a likely case for the insolvency. and his very last words were this changes everything, well if that’s the case who the hell gives a poo about weather he gets off on appeal (which he won`t imo) or if he does not. I have said all along as you know on the main site, insolvency is the only way to go, and Will`s comments have just strengthened that opinion. zxcv

      • almajir says:

        ZXCV

        If China Energy file a winding up petition, then they appoint the liquidator.

        If Carson gets off – he’s not barred from being a director any more.

        There is a massive link between China Energy and Carson.

        If China Energy appoints their man and Carson has a free rein to do what he wants, what price a prepack admin where Carson retains the club?

        The appeal is INDEED the gamechanger if Carson wins.

        • Tracykro says:

          Hi Dan
          If Carson gets retrial it will could take another Two Years, He needs money, Where will he get the money from? BIHL runny out of cash? Club got none because they need money for fixtures next season.
          If Carson wins the Court case will he be then aloud to run the football club because his already done time?
          thanks
          KRO

        • zxcv says:

          Dan,

          Wills own word again and you also know this! that nothing can be found in the accounts pertaining to any Loan from CE (China Energy) You almost make it sound like a formality that a liquidator can be appointed, that’s not the case and the receivers appointed by the courts will want proof if indeed any loan did exist and moreover why their is no mention of this loan in the accounts, Also the receiver via the courts can ask for a declaration of insolvency which will allow the sale without share holders approval ie CY.I would once again suggest that as we do not know what the receiver’s will turn up that we can not possibly predict something like CH appointing liquidators or anything else for that matter.

          • zxcv says:

            sorry should be CE, NOT CH.

          • zxcv says:

            Also Dan you said this,

            If Carson gets off – he’s not barred from being a director any more.

            Can I just remind you that Will also pointed out the likely hood would be a retrial, in that case he would still have his assets frozen and would be in the same position as when he had to resign his directorship.

            I think even you would agree a retrial would be like Will said the most likely outcome, but my opinion is he wont even get that.

          • almajir says:

            Actually, no he wouldn’t mate – he only had to resign when he was convicted. His assets would be frozen, but he wouldn’t be barred from being a director.

            I don’t think it would be. I don’t think he’ll get off personally – I think there is political stuff behind the scenes – and as much as a retrial would seem to be a fair resolution it would be even more farcical cos of the timelapse.

          • zxcv says:

            100% agree Dan. it would be e the worst result for cy

  • blue n bad says:

    All so predictable.CY will win his appeal and take over the running of the company whilst reinstating his cronies.He has been underestimated by too many people and he was never going to just sell up and go away.The man is going to be around for a long time so we just better get used to it.He doesn`t want to sell,he doesn`t have to either by the sound of it.So please no more talk of new ownership because it ain`t gonna happen certainly not anytime soon.Having said that, a last resort of a mass boycott may focus his mind but that`s anathema to many fans .KRO.

  • Jaffa says:

    You have got to give it to Carson.He is not going without a fight and everything hang ‘s in the balance.

  • David says:

    One thing we do not know, is that if Carson was released and managed to regain control of BIH and therefore BCFC, what would he do with the club? Given all the effort to gain control he must want to invest in some way in the club to make it better?

  • MAC says:

    Before China Energy can appoint a liquidator, they will have to prove they made a loan in the first place. I’m not convinced (from past performances) that the records will be in place to prove this. I’m sure E & Y are going through the records to see if this claim is justified.
    Like everyone else, I wish this was over, but I think it’s got a long way to go yet.

    • almajir says:

      I suspect that is very true MAC.

      Curious China Energy have made no announcement to the HKSE about it

      • WalmleySteve says:

        BIH’s accounts say that the loan was made by ‘iMerchant’s Asia Limited’, a subsidiary of China Energy. Maybe that’s why China Energy don’t need to announce anything?

        • almajir says:

          Wrong loan mate.

          iMerchants (8809) was a subsidiary of China Water (1129)

          • WalmleySteve says:

            Really…..? Announcement of final results on HKSE must be wrong then….

            “At 30 June 2014, included in the unsecured other loans was approximately HK$16,856,000 (2013:
            HK$14,412,000) loaned from iMerchant’s Asia Limited (“iMerchant”), a subsidiary of Chinese
            Energy Holdings Limited (“Chinese Energy”). Yau Yan Min, Raymond, a former independent
            non-executive director of the Company and Chan Wai Keung, a former non-executive director of
            the Company are both executive directors of Chinese Energy. The amounts represented a principal
            of approximately HK$10,000,000 (2013: HK$10,000,000) and accrued interest of approximately
            HK$6,856,000 (2013: HK$4,412,000). The loan is overdue and carries interest at fixed rates of
            0.5% per annum and penalty interest at 2% per month.”

          • almajir says:

            Walmley Steve

            Chinese Energy Holdings Ltd – formerly known as iMerchants. (stock code8009) http://webb-site.com/dbpub/orgdata.asp?p=10368

            Money owed by BIH – as per the announcement “…legal representatives of China Energy Development Holdings Ltd…” http://202.66.146.82/listco/hk/birminghamint/announcement/a150326.pdf – which is stock code 228 http://webb-site.com/dbpub/orgdata.asp?p=15384

            As I said, different loans, different firms.

            Trust me, I know what I’m on about here.

  • Tony E says:

    I can see it now, a re-trial is ordered, CY is released on bail and forcibly regains control of BIH. Reinstates Pannu who immediately takes control of the club. Sacks Panos and probably Tatts and immediately starts taking his salaries, expenses and consultancy fees. BIH is then run by CYs mates into the ground. Oh yes and Gray is sold for less than half the amount rejected in January ala Butland.

    • Adam True Blue says:

      Tony, I can see your an optimist, haha, what you say is all true, but then it could all be so wrong as well, roll on tomorrow so we will at least have some more facts to philosophise over. Kro.

  • Mitchell says:

    This really amounts to no sale and no new regime for GR to work with.We have vastly overcooked the E&Y involvement and it appears they will be leaving shortly..after being paid of course. What is our dilemma as fans is whether we re-new for next season or hold back.Worst scenario is that CY remains in control and HIS team run the club. Daniel has done well in getting the true insight into the current situation. I know some fans do not like many of the answers but as I have said in the past..like it we do not..but accept it we must.

    • blue n bad says:

      Spot on Mitchell I, too, don`t see any prospect of a sale and E & Y`s involvement seems to be a bit of a damp squib.Perhaps that`s unfair but i reckon CY has got their measure.

  • oldburyblue says:

    If we are honest we couldn’t care less whether CY or any other owner is a criminal or not as long as they invest loads of their ill-gotten gains into our Club rather than stealing from us. We all know of Clubs benefitting greatly from dubious owners. Not everyone agreed with the way our former owners made their fortunes but most enjoyed their financial input for a number of years. (I know….they made a massive profit for themselves in the process, but that is another story).

  • zxcv says:

    It would be an absolute disaster for Carson to get a retrial, His assets would remain frozen he would still not be allowed to be a director it would cost the earth to go through another two years of court costs let alone his legal teams costs and for what he could still lose the retrial and have to start any appeals all over again. I am therefor asking myself the question wouldn’t it be better for him to just await the court of final appeal maybe 18 months at the most and have a real chance or a better chance of being freed with his funds returned to him.

    • zxcv says:

      I have to correct the point about him being a director as I am not 100% he wouldn`t be allowed to be a director but would it be worth him being a director with no funds but tbh I doubt it would come to this as he won`t win his appeal anyway.


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