Often Partisan

Video Interview With Leading HK Insolvency Expert

Following the summons issued by Carson Yeung against the Receivers of Birmingham International Holdings, I have interviewed Steve Briscoe, leading HK insolvency practitioner and Will Giles, solicitor specialising in company litigation and co-author of Haircuts and League Cups to find out more about what is going on.

The key points:

  • Shareholder approval (including Carson) must be sought prior to the sale of the club
  • The substantive hearing for the summons issued by Carson in all probability won’t be for six months
  • Carson’s appeal has a crucial role to play.

 

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57 Responses to “Video Interview With Leading HK Insolvency Expert”

  • Oldbluenose says:

    Daniel;, in short, — We should just curl-up, on our settees, and wait patiently,?. for all of this to unfold in it’s own time,?.

  • StaffsBlue says:

    The only thing you can garner from that video, is that there is absolutely no good news. As you were then.

  • Mitchell says:

    Obviously CY will be around for a very long time. Like it we do not..accept it we must. No amount of talking or speculating will help. We all have to put up with us realising that CY is the major shareholder, and no amount of pressing will be successful. Estimated time for the appeal will be minimum 6 months with estimated clarity anything up to following season 2016/7. It appears E & Y have no control of the major shareholder. He has ultimate decision on whether he agrees to sell his share. At present the answer is a definite no. Over my dead body comes to mind..and that welll may be the case.

  • jobsterdave says:

    So it looks like for anything to happen either

    a) Carson accepts an offer from somewhere.
    b) Carson’s appeal needs to be successful or the club so he can regain a certain amount of power
    c)The Parent company need to go into (real) administration to force the issue.

    Just a thought though. Did Carson admit any wrongdoings during the initial court proceedings? Is it possible that if his appeal is successful, more / different charges could be brought?

  • John says:

    Thanks to all involved for the insight. Question for you. Reading some of the message boards, most are hoping E&Y find something amiss within the company accounts, surely this would only hinder any sale as charges would have to be brought in HK. And we all know that can be a while. The HK courts may confiscate any shares of those involved until the case (and then appeal) is heard?

  • Bluenose1 says:

    like I’ve said before we are never going to be rid of these people while blues are making money maybe the only way to get rid of these people is to starve the club of money as in not going to games not buying season tickets while we are pumping money in these people will stay.

  • WalmleySteve says:

    All of this doom and gloom about things dragging on for months if not years seems to assume one thing – that BIH has enough working capital to continue as a going concern (now including paying E&Y’s no doubt considerable fees) for that period. Surely this can’t be the case and at some point E&Y will have to go the shareholders including Carson and say, we either sell the club and dish out the proceeds or the thing goes bust and you get nothing? Surely the Panos faction would not have taken this step to bring in E&Y if they didn’t think there was an end game approaching?

    • Wicklow_Blue says:

      But isn’t it also possible that BIHL could be kept afloat by BCFC selling assets?

      There was great support from the Board during the January transfer window meaning that we didn’t sell Demari but does that mean there wont be a fire sale in the summer?

      I used to be an optimist but not sure now how there is likely to be a positive outcome if E&Y are unable to do everything we had hoped (broker a quick sale) and we potentially have the sale of our best players to look forward to over the summer.

      The only good news today is that the postman delivered my copy of ‘Haircuts and League Cups’ so maybe its not all doom and gloom!.

  • Dave Mann says:

    So Carson keeps pulling all the strings and E&Y are is puppets … We should have known that all along instead of all of us including myself jumping to all the wrong conclusions , ah well never mind ha!! … For the record Bluenose1 if you don’t want to go down and watch your team that’s up to you .. I love travelling all over the country having great days out and enjoying the away experience like tommorow at Cardiff , it’s enjoyable and a way of life for me and my family so please don’t come on here and tell all true supporters not to go down because your giving Carson your money .. How nieve and stupid is that, if its shopping and playing golf at weekends enjoy but not for me mate , I will stick with supporting my football club if that’s ok . Kro

    • Bluenose1 says:

      Dave Mann I’m not saying you or anyone shouldn’t go all I’m saying is MAYBE fans should do that what else is their to do with these people other than stave them of money. That’s the problem with this country we allow ourselves to be shafted left right and centre and don’t do a thing about it.

      • Dave mann says:

        By starving the blues of money as you call it your putting the great people who work at the club at risk and only thinking of Carson yeungs demise and not of those who work for our great club… As for feeling shafted mate I don’t feel anything of the kind when ime out on the lash supporting my club in Cardiff tomorrow , drinking eating singing and really enjoying myself , I can’t see why anyone who has any feeling for the club would want to give that up and I for one with all my family and friends who all go on private coaches to all the away games would feel the same as you !! Kro

        • zulu66 says:

          Dave, everything you say is bang on, the away day craic, singing, drinking etc… But i will not, however long it takes, pay any money to these absolute c**** for a home game, no season ticket, no match day ticket no merchandise, and i know of dozens just like me. The stayaways do not have to tell people who attend what to do with their money, but we cannot either make people realise where the bulk of this income is going. I still attend the home games with my mates having the craic, but stay in the pub during the game, however i’ll go to a few away games, it’s a better day out anyway. Feel sorry for the staff at bcfc, but i’ll decide where my hard earned goes, and until we get a decent board who invest and re-invest in our beloved club it stays behind the bar. 3 years now, no home game attended.

          • almajir says:

            but we cannot either make people realise where the bulk of this income is going

            Players pockets mate – every single year almost all the money Blues brings in goes to the players wages. Same as every single other club in the country.

    • alan fowler says:

      Well said Dave, don’t people realise that if we starve the club of money, how on earth does the club find the money to survive next season, and the coming seasons ,seems to me a ridiculous idea , and one not properly thought through

      • Dave Mann says:

        That’s the thing Alan you have people like Bluenose 1 who say they have the clubs interests at heart but don’t experience the game it’s self . Sad really .kro

  • Rupert the bear says:

    I would never suggest it but as the season ticket time is almost upon us…………………… Don’t you feel WE have the power?!!! Sponsorship would be gone if you know what happened?
    TV money would fall !
    Off course I will be buying my season ticket ASAP

  • Blueboi14 says:

    Carson obviously knows this, but he’s still doing everything in his power to remove E&Y. Why? I think we have the same thoughts as to why he doesn’t want E&Y near the books.

    We can therefore only hope that E&Y do find anomalies in the accounting that will change the situation, and swing the pendulum to our advantage.

  • Mickey07 says:

    That was All a tad dramatic if you ask me,I still for the life of me can’t see a professional outfit in EY being given the run around by pannu and a hairdresser inside for money laundering not once did them blokes on Skype mention “things might change if EY find anything a bit dodgy” during there investigation,that was quite a black picture they painted but my money is on panos,EY coming up trumps in the not to distance future,our friend pannu will be running for the hills it’s a guarantee his “greed” will hang himself in the end.,panos knows what he is doing he’s streets ahead of pannu.whos sat in the big chair at stans and who’s the one locked out of his own offices in Hong Kong sweating like a bit of Chinese pork?in panos we trust.

    • Stevie W says:

      Mickey I am with you on this.

      Dan a good interview but not enough info on potential selling of BIHL or re investment of BIHL and what pitfalls obstruct that avenue.

      Still a good watch anyway clearly they are limited in what they can say which I think we all appreciate.

      So roll on the 1st April 2015

      • almajir says:

        Stevie

        What info do you want? The fact that Carson has to be consulted and give his approval surely is the biggest pitfall there is?

        Think you also need to take into account that if Carson’s summons won’t be heard for months it’s highly unlikely the club will be allowed to be sold before that hearing…

        • Mickey07 says:

          Dan

          Wouldn’t any of you/your mates in Hong Kong be a able to “gauge” a lot more of what’s going on if you would be able to see the “court order”??seemed to me there was a lot of if and maybes in that Skype blog/second guessing….wait to see what EY delivers first as I’m sure things will take a twist in the next few weeks.

          • almajir says:

            Of course it would help Mickey, but it’s sealed and my avenues to get a look at it have failed.

            Big hope is a) the judge summarily dismisses the summons or b) that some reason for expidency is found – otherwise this will drag big time.

        • Stevie W says:

          Dan I agree CY is a pitfall in all this at present but not insurmountable.

          The angle I would like more professional opinion on is not the sale of the club, as I still believe this is still a last resort should all other plans fail, but the sell off/takeover of BIHL by other investors and how feasible this could be to achieve.

          Clearly what EY produces over the next week or so I think will clear the waters somewhat but then nothing has ever been a cert in this epic saga.

          As I said role on 1st April

          • almajir says:

            Stevie

            Nothing can be done with respect to investment in BIH until the shares are relisted – EY are working on that but that in itself is problematic as part of that is that they need to show they have money for the next 12 months so it’s a catch 22 situation. Any plan to issue convertible bonds or debt for equity would require an EGM – guess what that means…

          • Stevie W says:

            Dan thanks for the reply I see what you mean and all roads it would seem lead to CY at the moment.

            Keep up the good work and as for for Dan’s World video’s keep them going they really do encourage good debate and are very informative even if it is from a speculative position.

            KRO

          • almajir says:

            Thanks Stevie.

            I think you hit the nail on the head in that if it encourages people to think and look things up for themselves then that’s a good thing – and I like it that people challenge what I say. Question everything…

      • StaffsBlue says:

        Hopefully, that 6 months will give E&Y plenty of time to find the skeletons.

  • oldburyblue says:

    Thank you Daniel, as ever, for the update. The bottom line though as I see it is that even your “experts” in HK don’t have any inside knowledge and can only speculate like the rest of us. I, like a lot of people I suspect, am disappointed to find that E&Y do not have as much power as we were led to believe.

  • Blue Lizard says:

    Well that’s depressing isn’t it??? Friday night ruined!..best get bladdered!

  • Bluenosesol says:

    When the board “facilitated” the appointment of E&Y they had an end game in mind. I think we need to give them credit for that. If the outcome was to be more of the same, then E&Y wouldn’t be there!! KRO&O&O&O&O&O&O&O&O&O&O&O&O&O&O&&O&O&O&O&O&O&O&O&O&O&!!!!!

  • Art says:

    Dan,

    If the club was heading for administration wouldn’t this in you opinion force CY to sell- He would gain nothing but would lose a substantial amount of money and I couldn’t see him running the slightest risk.

    If this is the case wouldn’t a financial boycott be the best way forward?

    • almajir says:

      Art

      As I’ve said a bajillion times – season ticket money is a small fraction of the club’s income – it’s the TV money and the commercial income that in reality keeps the club going. You can boycott all you want but it won’t work and you will not get a totality of people doing the same.

      Look at Blackpool – it’s a clusterf*ck up there with a team and manager which has fallen apart and people are STILL going

  • cannock blue says:

    The important thing to remember is this is now the end game. It may not be over for a while yet but it’s clear to see that the process has begun. Carson is not to be trusted so much so that members of his own family are against him, most notably his son! They want out and I firmly believe that the reasons why E&y was appointed was for their expertise in dealing with companies in similar circumstances. They are already making steps in sorting out the finances by appointing goldin. I agree with dave that boycotting the games is foolhardy and will put blues even further into the mire! What we need is to get St Andrews roaring again, like it used to when bf was in charge. 28 thousand singing we don’t care about Carson and banners being the size of half the stand that’s the way to send the message. it would lift the team and make the club more tempting for a big investors seeing a club with huge following like the second city should have. I truly feel that panos has the clubs best interest at heart and we should support them rather than put their investors in trouble By starving the club Of cash! It’s important to remember that punishing Carson would also subsequently punnish them also!

    • Mickey07 says:

      Cannock

      “Singing we don’t care about carson” ??
      Change it to Peter pannu he is the cause and the cancer of all this you’ve got the wrong man in carson,the long arm of the law will be with mr pannu very shortly though.

  • Ian Ambrose says:

    Waiting see and hearing by 1st April what happing then???…i don’t want slow snail….- – – – – @/ “—@/ “

  • tony allen says:

    never mind bloody loyalty i want a club my son can be proud which bears the name of this great city and the only way is to take these slant eyed bastards on boycott season tickets as i said last year bolton was the worst result ever after 55 years ive still got fight in me

    • Dave Mann says:

      tony, ime of similar age to you and I’ve got a son who’s so proud to be a blues fan it brings me to tears , wembley, Brugge , whipping villes arse in the early noughties. and the support we get away especially at Bolton have all been witnessed by myself my son and my wife and ime as proud to be a blues fan NOW as I’ve always been, loyalty is a personal thing and I’ve got no problem with that but as dan keeps saying its not Carson and is mob that are getting your season ticket money and by not showing any loyalty ain’t gonna make a shed of difference to weather they stay or go … Just a thought mate!!! Kro

      • TracyKRO says:

        I will go and support blues and buy stuff from shop, SOMETHING could happen to YOURSELVES before these SELL UP and GO. HEALTH wise anything can happen and if I was staying AWAY cause of this LOT and something happens to you and you couldn’t go again how will you honestly feel, GUTTED
        Hope we get 3 points today KRO

  • Agree pannu is a massive problem but who does he work for? Carson the major shareholder the man who wants to put body guards, and various shady characters on the board. So to me he is the biggest problem together with all his dodgy mates! The fact hes in jail for fraud also confirms to me hes the route cause and blues are nothing more than a status symbol to him and a way to launder money. Thats my view

  • Hillfield Blues says:

    Well any optimism that I had before has pretty much gone after that. With the result of the summons that CY has served being up to 6 months away there’s no chance anything can happen anyway until that is resolved so it’s pretty futile us lot banging on about it any more to be honest.
    Both guys seemed very dismissive that anything positive could happen so you just have to accept it I suppose.kro

  • BigmanSteve0 says:

    Almajir, what we do without you? Thanks for all you are doing!

  • AussieBlue says:

    No doubt Steve and Will are technically correct but the tools and strategems available to receivers are sometimes outside of the ‘9 dots’. This is more than a battle between Pannos and Carson camps. It is a battle between Law & Order and dark forces. We may find thst Queesnsberry rules go out of the window.

  • Dave Mann says:

    As I’ve said AussieBlue this is gonna be better than mayweather v pachio as far as fights go …. Carson as is reasons for hanging on and it will be very interesting to see what E&Y can throw at him because at the moment Carsons winning on points in the early rounds but lets hope that the receivers can find a knockout punch to put us all out of our misery but it looks like its going the distance and we cold have a split desicion ! Kro

    • AussieBlue says:

      Pretty good analogy Dave mate. It’s definitely in the litigation fisticuffs stage. Not sure I agree that CY’s ahead on points and one thing’s for sure – whenever if ever this ends it will not be a split decision; it will be decisive and the Lonsdale Belt will be around one party’s waist only. No question that an at-liberty Carson will be able to pack some powerful punches but he has to be at liberty first eh? The Don Kings and Angelo Dundee’s of this stoush are Kingston Securities and Neptune Resources…Dan’s mentioned then many times in the past. That’s where the money came from to buy our club. ‘Paid back’ of course. E&Y and now their financial adviser Goldin are experts at following money trails (Goldin’s ultimate holding company is registered in Brit Virgin Islands, like BIHL)..and it is the money trail that will out the truth. Carson’s problem and why he is in the chokey is that he could not document a huge part of the money trail. I mean: ‘Because I knew this bloke for ages, I didn’t see the need for a receipt or any other paperwork for $30 million’ is just plain ridiculous. Add to that ‘I had a big win in Macau’ and x that by 80…well all of us who have read Dan’s book know the rest. Yep; it’s a World title fight and I’ll say again; it’s not just about Carson and BCFC…much bigger than that. We are pawns in a major game of Oriental chess. Or Mah-jong?

      • Dave mann says:

        They should put it on pay per view AussieBlue because it will certainly be worth watching !!! .. It’s amazing that the stay away fans would find money to watch that but can’t find the legs to go to the games .. And they cell themselves supporters ,that’s what gets my back up !!! Kro

        • AussieBlue says:

          Yes indeed..if we can just get that message through; that staying away will not make one jot of difference to the outcome, we’ve done the club a service. I can’t preach as it’s 10,000 miles for me to attend but if ever I’m in Brum in-season, I get down there.

  • Stan Moye says:

    How are we going to satisfy the FL we have sufficient funds for next season? Who will have the final say regarding selling what we consider to be our asset’s? if this is the required course of action to raise the required revenue. E&Y have clearly been brought in with an agenda, we may not know what that is yet, all gone quiet on the missing millions. Boycotting the club serves no purpose, it decreases everything we stand for. It amazes me other clubs are going through due process, yet the size of the city and potential of our club is given a wide berth, this can only be down to the legal situation surrounding BIHL and CY. Lets all hope EY can find either the evidence they require to finally get rid of CY and his cronies, or find a buyer that even CY would not refuse.

  • Stevie W says:

    Boycotting games now should not be an option for Bluenose’s. Right now the club needs us all to be there at the games supporting the club. Forget the “Where is the money going” question, it has been stated many times the club receives all the proceeds of their business and is not being taken away by the Chinese takeaway.

    So before you boycott the next game say to yourself are you a Blues supporter who wants to do good for the club or are you a Blues supporter who really cannot be ar*ed.

  • gerard says:

    Dan-questions
    1.Carson summons runs for 6 months- were or were are the funds to run the club going to come from next season -to satisfy the Football League you have to have confirmed plans and funds in place well before the season begins and gain there approval-how can this happen if we are still stuck in the middle of this long running battle -as fans can you clarify please- and what happens if we cannot satisfy the Football League in time we have sufficient funds in place or were they will come from for next season?

    2. In your opinion will we have sufficient funds in place if the saga is still running and no new owners or investment etc?

    3. IF E and Y and there recently appointed associates find a defined and confirmed shall we say concerning fraud or other illegal goings on perpetuated by Pannu and Yeung or there associates whilst there investigations are going on and it is proven to a court -how would this change the situation would it nullify any claims or counter claims by CY and co and hasten the selling of the club in an a totally unhindered way by E and Y or not? meaning CY would be dead and buried ? or not ?

    please can you give your thoughts opinions on this from yours and Wills inside and so meaningful viewpoint yours Gerard

    • almajir says:

      Gerard

      I know you want answers to your questions but in honesty I can’t answer any of them as I don’t know – no one knows about the financial side of things (and indeed this is an issue as the HKSE want to know too), as I keep saying I don’t have a crystal ball so I can’t predict the future and I suspect your last question actually proving it in court would take so long (remember the glacial pace of the HK legal system) it wouldn’t have any effect as it would be long after the fact.

      I’m sorry these won’t be the answers you want but I’m not the fount of all knowledge.

  • Smudge says:

    Thanks Dan, an insightful interview. It seems to me that CY will only play ball if:
    1. He is presented with an offer (for the club) that he cant refuse. We all know he looking to recoup all or the majority of his 80m, and I believe this is because he owes this to many of his initial backers.
    2. With all of the legal bills he has piling up, how will he pay and as we all know the shares he and his family have are not making money at the moment. Would it be fair that his share stock may end up being worth a lot less later on.
    I realize that he probably still has many wealthy friends/associates that will help him and no doubt a few foreign bank accounts that he can dip into but surely the longer this drags on the more likely that he will need to use these assets to cover the mounting debts.
    With that in mind I still think that there is an air of desperation surrounding CY and he is just trying to flex some remaining muscle.
    I could of course be totally wrong but you see how I and many are thinking.
    Keep this going OP as one day the truth will out and a lot of people will owe you a large amount of beers…..

    • almajir says:

      I can see the logic and I think Will and Steve think the second bit is the fascinating bit. The trouble is Carson can pull rabbits out of hats and there are people willing to back him still.

  • BigAl says:

    Dan I thought I had posted comments but has not appeared so it is either awaiting moderation although it did not say so or I have had a computer blip.

    The video blog paints a bleak picture in particular because of Yeung’s shareholding. The receivers normal powers have been highlighted and the due process has been highlighted. There is nothing normal in this saga. The majority shareholder is in prison for money laundering, there have been misappropriation of funds, who knows who is involved in that. As aussie blue commented this is now more to do with litigation than anything else. There is also the question of company law with regard to director actions.

    I have been scouring the internet and came across cases where the court have intervened so there are president cases out there.I found one case which may or may not be of interest.
    As follows,
    A court can grant relief such as dissolution or stock buy out when controlling shareholders have acted fraudulently or illegally, mismanaged the business, abused their authority as officers or directors, or have acted oppressively or unfairly toward a minority shareholder. The minority shareholder is able to petition a court to order a buy out of the majority upon a triggering event such as shareholder oppression. Yeung has had repeated attempts to oust directors and put his own directors on board by using his voting power, can this be classed as oppression, I don,t know, Have E/Y turned up further illegal activities, mismanagement( highly likely) , abuse of authority( highly likely). This again is pure speculation but there are president court cases out there.

    The other possible scenario is for this to drag on for months and months with the receivers and financial advisor running up huge fees, will BIHL be able to pay, if not E/Y become preferential creditors , the company wound up and BCFC sold to pay off liabilities. Of course there would be a ten point deduction in this scenario.

    This is all theoretical of course but you never know!

  • tony allen says:

    i will take relegation i will take admin anything to get rid of these cretins i dont want to stand there and watch the club i have supported for 50 years just drift into obscurity do something about now or it will be to late

  • Ian Ambrose says:

    Today Blues lost 2-0 to cardiff …Blues needing three or 4 more to win 9 and 12 points stay up in league and end of match blues away to bolton again in May (blues fans 4,000 or more Away to bolton)??? same last year 2-2 blues stay up 2014 and 2015!!!


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